1 00:01:06,570 --> 00:01:02,780 [Music] 2 00:01:10,380 --> 00:01:06,580 this hope radio for the masses headliner 3 00:01:12,899 --> 00:01:10,390 between July 8 1947 here are the airport 4 00:01:14,580 --> 00:01:12,909 with her Sonam and applying this - found 5 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:14,590 and is now in the possession of the 6 00:01:22,590 --> 00:01:19,770 other big change the game changer I 7 00:01:26,910 --> 00:01:22,600 occasionally think how quickly our 8 00:01:29,550 --> 00:01:26,920 differences worldwide would vanish if we 9 00:01:30,980 --> 00:01:29,560 were facing an alien threat from outside 10 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:30,990 his way 11 00:01:36,170 --> 00:01:32,810 [Music] 12 00:01:41,510 --> 00:01:38,660 fade to black with your host Jimmy 13 00:01:44,790 --> 00:01:41,520 Church on the game changer Radio Network 14 00:01:48,050 --> 00:01:44,800 an AGR a the global rain 15 00:01:53,180 --> 00:01:49,730 need your help to get to the year 16 00:01:59,060 --> 00:01:56,870 [Music] 17 00:02:01,219 --> 00:01:59,070 you're listening to fade to black with 18 00:02:01,990 --> 00:02:01,229 Jimmy touch or the game change in that 19 00:02:04,350 --> 00:02:02,000 word 20 00:02:09,210 --> 00:02:04,360 [Music] 21 00:02:15,910 --> 00:02:09,220 good evening fade to black 22 00:02:25,420 --> 00:02:22,840 math says how are you doing how you 23 00:02:32,110 --> 00:02:25,430 doing how are you doing today is 24 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:32,120 Wednesday May 6 2020 127 days into the 25 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:34,410 new year only 239 days left 26 00:02:36,860 --> 00:02:36,170 [Music] 27 00:02:39,380 --> 00:02:36,870 [Applause] 28 00:02:41,750 --> 00:02:39,390 [Music] 29 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:41,760 we are live from a bunker somewhere in 30 00:02:44,990 --> 00:02:43,170 the middle of beautiful downtown Burbank 31 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:45,000 California and I would like to welcome 32 00:02:52,930 --> 00:02:46,770 everybody listening all around the world 33 00:02:59,280 --> 00:02:55,990 the other and tither to and fro back and 34 00:03:02,750 --> 00:02:59,290 forth up and down east and west north 35 00:03:06,589 --> 00:03:02,760 and south 36 00:03:08,539 --> 00:03:06,599 far in near this is fade to black for KJ 37 00:03:12,289 --> 00:03:08,549 CR the game change the network and kg 38 00:03:13,980 --> 00:03:12,299 are a the planets I am your host Jimmy 39 00:03:17,860 --> 00:03:13,990 Church 40 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:17,870 what is called racking 41 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:27,620 let's do this tonight man I can't wait 42 00:03:39,860 --> 00:03:32,090 tonight right here on this program very 43 00:03:40,940 --> 00:03:39,870 special guest Nick Redfern got a lot of 44 00:03:44,950 --> 00:03:40,950 favorite guests that we have on the show 45 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:44,960 Nick Redfern right up there at the top 46 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:49,170 love Nick love Nick and we are going to 47 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:51,450 be talking about his new book it was 48 00:03:57,290 --> 00:03:54,450 just released we have the links for the 49 00:04:01,270 --> 00:03:57,300 book right there on our website you can 50 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:01,280 go and click on it and it is entitled 51 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:05,970 the Rendlesham forest UFO conspiracy a 52 00:04:15,790 --> 00:04:09,690 close encounter exposed as a top secret 53 00:04:18,410 --> 00:04:15,800 government experiment oh man here we go 54 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:18,420 love it love it 55 00:04:25,430 --> 00:04:22,170 so that's tonight tomorrow night on this 56 00:04:28,550 --> 00:04:25,440 very program it is another Fator night 57 00:04:30,530 --> 00:04:28,560 because it is Thursday which means open 58 00:04:32,810 --> 00:04:30,540 lines all night long with all of you 59 00:04:35,780 --> 00:04:32,820 really looking forward to that 60 00:04:38,840 --> 00:04:35,790 and tomorrow night besides tonight with 61 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:38,850 Nick Redfern my favorite night of the 62 00:04:45,620 --> 00:04:41,250 week you know I'm going to you really 63 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:45,630 okay poltergeists and and crazy stuff on 64 00:04:52,370 --> 00:04:50,130 Monday this coming Monday well I get all 65 00:04:55,100 --> 00:04:52,380 of the publicity started on this 66 00:04:59,650 --> 00:04:55,110 tomorrow on Thursday because it kicks 67 00:05:04,750 --> 00:04:59,660 off on Friday but on Monday I will be 68 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:04,760 hosting for a couple of hours a live 69 00:05:11,420 --> 00:05:08,730 event at the conjuring house it's called 70 00:05:15,290 --> 00:05:11,430 the house with the current family that 71 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:15,300 lives there they've got cameras spread 72 00:05:22,010 --> 00:05:19,890 throughout the house and I will be able 73 00:05:24,620 --> 00:05:22,020 to sit down with everybody there on a 74 00:05:28,340 --> 00:05:24,630 one-week lockdown and if you want to go 75 00:05:31,070 --> 00:05:28,350 and check it out you can you can just do 76 00:05:34,070 --> 00:05:31,080 it the the cameras are live for seven 77 00:05:37,550 --> 00:05:34,080 days and this is going to be really 78 00:05:40,340 --> 00:05:37,560 really cool so yeah I'm going to get to 79 00:05:43,430 --> 00:05:40,350 to meet everybody and 80 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:43,440 go through the house and do that and 81 00:05:48,710 --> 00:05:45,450 host the program for two and a half 82 00:05:53,900 --> 00:05:48,720 hours and schedule for two but you know 83 00:05:56,810 --> 00:05:53,910 we'll be doing overtime yeah it's gonna 84 00:05:59,450 --> 00:05:56,820 be cool so that's on Monday on fade to 85 00:06:01,790 --> 00:05:59,460 black so leading into that speaking of 86 00:06:04,820 --> 00:06:01,800 poltergeist right and weird stuff in 87 00:06:08,150 --> 00:06:04,830 haunted houses I have and I've noticed 88 00:06:11,950 --> 00:06:08,160 this for a while now I just kind of 89 00:06:16,280 --> 00:06:11,960 ignore it but it happened again today I 90 00:06:20,210 --> 00:06:16,290 have in the studio in front of me with 91 00:06:23,090 --> 00:06:20,220 all this gear I have a mousepad here 92 00:06:25,610 --> 00:06:23,100 that's got three nice on it three mice 93 00:06:28,909 --> 00:06:25,620 that control three computers I have more 94 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:28,919 mice over here you can you can see ones 95 00:06:33,260 --> 00:06:31,530 here and there's another one that's over 96 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:33,270 here this one's wireless oh I hope I 97 00:06:39,950 --> 00:06:36,410 didn't just shut off one of the streams 98 00:06:41,330 --> 00:06:39,960 is this right in front of these nieces 99 00:06:45,460 --> 00:06:41,340 was that correct 100 00:06:52,420 --> 00:06:45,470 nice I have three little protectors I 101 00:06:55,010 --> 00:06:52,430 have my little Incredible Hulk USB Drive 102 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:55,020 alright look at Hulk he's pretty cool 103 00:06:59,290 --> 00:06:57,210 that's a USB Drive right okay so you 104 00:07:01,490 --> 00:06:59,300 just be dry and I actually use this 105 00:07:03,350 --> 00:07:01,500 every night but anybody so I got my 106 00:07:04,430 --> 00:07:03,360 little Incredible Hulk and he sits right 107 00:07:08,719 --> 00:07:04,440 here 108 00:07:15,010 --> 00:07:08,729 and then right next to him I got this 109 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:15,020 from Stacy with an eye my little Lego 110 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:17,970 Bigfoot sasquatch and he's got a camera 111 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:21,330 right my little he's a Lego right he's a 112 00:07:27,770 --> 00:07:23,850 little Lego dude he's got a little stand 113 00:07:31,900 --> 00:07:27,780 and he sits right here and then in the 114 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:31,910 middle of these two I've got a little 115 00:07:40,850 --> 00:07:35,850 ninja warrior I got a little ninja 116 00:07:42,830 --> 00:07:40,860 warrior yeah I yeah yeah so these three 117 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:42,840 guys sit right here no big deal all 118 00:07:48,830 --> 00:07:45,690 right okay they all stand up they've all 119 00:07:53,250 --> 00:07:48,840 got big feet they don't fall and I come 120 00:07:57,780 --> 00:07:53,260 into the studio every day 121 00:07:59,250 --> 00:07:57,790 and one of them is knocked over it means 122 00:08:02,400 --> 00:07:59,260 a guy is down 123 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:02,410 Hulk is knocked over the Sasquatch's 124 00:08:07,830 --> 00:08:04,930 it's like what's going on when I'm not 125 00:08:10,860 --> 00:08:07,840 here and I'm just picturing these guys 126 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:10,870 things you know going at it but how do 127 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:12,850 they fall over and they do it all the 128 00:08:17,580 --> 00:08:15,850 time all the time I just got to the 129 00:08:22,290 --> 00:08:17,590 point of ignoring it 130 00:08:23,940 --> 00:08:22,300 this little guy yeah yeah anyway my 131 00:08:24,930 --> 00:08:23,950 little protectors and they're always 132 00:08:28,020 --> 00:08:24,940 falling over 133 00:08:32,420 --> 00:08:28,030 how does with this stand right this Lego 134 00:08:36,540 --> 00:08:32,430 how does sasquatch fall over but he does 135 00:08:40,680 --> 00:08:36,550 so there you go it's like that movie Toy 136 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:40,690 Story all right a little protect us okay 137 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:43,210 so that'll be on Monday that'll be on 138 00:08:48,750 --> 00:08:47,050 Monday I'm fade to black the house okay 139 00:08:50,490 --> 00:08:48,760 so we'll get the links up and you guys 140 00:08:51,990 --> 00:08:50,500 can go and check it out it's going to be 141 00:08:56,190 --> 00:08:52,000 a lot of fun because we'll be 142 00:08:57,780 --> 00:08:56,200 broadcasting doing a simulcast so what 143 00:09:01,080 --> 00:08:57,790 is happening here on fade to black will 144 00:09:02,820 --> 00:09:01,090 be the audio from that feed you won't 145 00:09:04,470 --> 00:09:02,830 have the video if you want to check out 146 00:09:06,810 --> 00:09:04,480 all of the video or go check out a 147 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:06,820 week's worth of poltergeist activity and 148 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:08,650 and ghost hunting that they're doing at 149 00:09:13,590 --> 00:09:11,890 the house which is pretty cool I'll get 150 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:13,600 you all of the links so you can do that 151 00:09:20,790 --> 00:09:18,370 and it starts on Friday we start our 152 00:09:23,100 --> 00:09:20,800 thing will be on Monday evening this 153 00:09:27,810 --> 00:09:23,110 Monday okay all right where am I at 154 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:27,820 follow me on Twitter at Jay Church radio 155 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:30,010 at Jay Church radio start right there 156 00:09:38,130 --> 00:09:34,650 I like the in in the Twitter feed the 157 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:38,140 raccoon meme from earlier that was 158 00:09:41,610 --> 00:09:38,810 pretty cool 159 00:09:46,110 --> 00:09:41,620 [Laughter] 160 00:09:48,210 --> 00:09:46,120 he washes his hands incessantly yeah it 161 00:09:50,370 --> 00:09:48,220 was pretty good okay follow me on 162 00:09:51,690 --> 00:09:50,380 twitter @jj church radio any questions 163 00:09:54,870 --> 00:09:51,700 or comments during the show tonight 164 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:54,880 use hashtag f2b q that's fade to black 165 00:10:00,630 --> 00:09:57,250 questions you want to hang out with 166 00:10:04,350 --> 00:10:00,640 everybody the sandbox is hashtag F to be 167 00:10:07,410 --> 00:10:04,360 on Twitter hello to everybody out there 168 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:07,420 YouTube Twitter Facebook talk stream 169 00:10:14,610 --> 00:10:11,890 live k GRA the planet tune in I Heart 170 00:10:15,810 --> 00:10:14,620 Radio wherever you're listening welcome 171 00:10:18,389 --> 00:10:15,820 to the show 172 00:10:20,460 --> 00:10:18,399 okay all right let's you can also email 173 00:10:23,550 --> 00:10:20,470 Jimmy Jimmy turns radio comma I want you 174 00:10:25,170 --> 00:10:23,560 to get your immune system boosted I want 175 00:10:26,610 --> 00:10:25,180 you to do that I want you to take care 176 00:10:29,940 --> 00:10:26,620 of yourself I want you to be healthy 177 00:10:32,340 --> 00:10:29,950 just like I am here I'm just healthy 178 00:10:34,470 --> 00:10:32,350 read it said to me today before the show 179 00:10:36,780 --> 00:10:34,480 and I think it was the van Halen shirt 180 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:36,790 but she turned to me and she goes Church 181 00:10:45,690 --> 00:10:42,970 you look great you look magnificent 182 00:10:48,210 --> 00:10:45,700 you're so handsome you look cute in your 183 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:48,220 health you look great I think was the 184 00:10:53,460 --> 00:10:50,290 van Halen shirt but thank you for all of 185 00:10:57,290 --> 00:10:53,470 that Rita but get get your immune system 186 00:10:59,639 --> 00:10:57,300 and boost it you know you've just got to 187 00:11:02,370 --> 00:10:59,649 get a check-up once in a while make sure 188 00:11:04,230 --> 00:11:02,380 that you are all of your fluids are 189 00:11:07,290 --> 00:11:04,240 topped off go and visit kept the 190 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:07,300 t-dot-com all right promo code fader 191 00:11:11,910 --> 00:11:09,130 will get you free shipping on everything 192 00:11:13,949 --> 00:11:11,920 over 50 bucks but go over to get the 193 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:13,959 t.com and while you're over at jimmy 194 00:11:17,639 --> 00:11:15,730 church radio calm how this show happens 195 00:11:20,939 --> 00:11:17,649 is sponsors our sponsors are the best 196 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:20,949 like hit the tea calm and in Billy 197 00:11:26,910 --> 00:11:24,130 Carson and his new internet TV network 198 00:11:28,889 --> 00:11:26,920 forbidden knowledge tie TV go and click 199 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:28,899 on that banner go and visit Billy you 200 00:11:32,460 --> 00:11:30,850 get a three day trial membership go and 201 00:11:35,939 --> 00:11:32,470 check it out right now all of you fate 202 00:11:37,829 --> 00:11:35,949 or knots forbidden knowledge TV and of 203 00:11:40,620 --> 00:11:37,839 course River moon coffee I just saw a 204 00:11:44,310 --> 00:11:40,630 tweet pop up about how great our new 205 00:11:47,850 --> 00:11:44,320 blend is the game changer game change a 206 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:47,860 blend go to the Amazon store for River 207 00:11:52,050 --> 00:11:50,050 moon coffee all of the banners are over 208 00:11:55,019 --> 00:11:52,060 a 2 meter radio calm for all of our 209 00:11:57,480 --> 00:11:55,029 sponsors here promo code for our amazon 210 00:11:59,490 --> 00:11:57,490 is jimmy our MC it's all caps 211 00:12:05,939 --> 00:11:59,500 Jimmy our MC and if you go to the 212 00:12:08,790 --> 00:12:05,949 website of f2b blend F the number to be 213 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:08,800 blend F to be blend that will get you 214 00:12:13,170 --> 00:12:10,930 15% off of your order on their website 215 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:13,180 skin to the breaking news this happened 216 00:12:17,030 --> 00:12:15,010 a couple of days ago and when the story 217 00:12:21,460 --> 00:12:17,040 started to break I was like 218 00:12:27,230 --> 00:12:21,470 really but it's turning out to probably 219 00:12:30,499 --> 00:12:27,240 be true and that's because Venezuelan 220 00:12:33,850 --> 00:12:30,509 president Nicolas Maduro said 221 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:33,860 authorities in Venezuela arrested two 222 00:12:42,110 --> 00:12:37,290 United States citizens among a group of 223 00:12:46,220 --> 00:12:42,120 mercenaries on Monday a day after a 224 00:12:51,319 --> 00:12:46,230 beach raid an invasion Bay of Pigs right 225 00:12:56,389 --> 00:12:51,329 an invasion that purportedly was aimed 226 00:12:57,710 --> 00:12:56,399 at capturing Maduro Maduro says they 227 00:13:00,999 --> 00:12:57,720 foiled it 228 00:13:03,050 --> 00:13:01,009 I think they infiltrated the group 229 00:13:06,079 --> 00:13:03,060 that's right the two US citizens 230 00:13:10,069 --> 00:13:06,089 arrested Monday were identified as Luke 231 00:13:12,499 --> 00:13:10,079 Denman and Aaron berry both former 232 00:13:15,470 --> 00:13:12,509 United States Special Forces soldiers 233 00:13:17,930 --> 00:13:15,480 Maduro held up a pair of blue US 234 00:13:20,090 --> 00:13:17,940 passports reading off the names and 235 00:13:22,939 --> 00:13:20,100 birthdates on them in a nationwide 236 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:22,949 broadcast on state television before 237 00:13:27,620 --> 00:13:25,130 dawn on Sunday 238 00:13:30,050 --> 00:13:27,630 officials say the first attack started 239 00:13:34,129 --> 00:13:30,060 on a beach near Venezuela's port city of 240 00:13:36,379 --> 00:13:34,139 La gara when security forces made the 241 00:13:40,030 --> 00:13:36,389 first two arrests and killed eight 242 00:13:43,250 --> 00:13:40,040 others attempting to make a landing by 243 00:13:47,509 --> 00:13:43,260 speedboats yeah 244 00:13:49,519 --> 00:13:47,519 that's pretty crazy in it and the 245 00:13:53,180 --> 00:13:49,529 company that was involved in this that's 246 00:13:55,250 --> 00:13:53,190 right a private security firm out of the 247 00:13:58,389 --> 00:13:55,260 United States and the guy that ran that 248 00:14:02,210 --> 00:13:58,399 company was doing interviews out of 249 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:02,220 Colombia into the United States and laid 250 00:14:06,170 --> 00:14:04,050 out everything and how much he was 251 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:06,180 involved and how much he was supposed to 252 00:14:11,929 --> 00:14:10,170 make it and now confessions and video is 253 00:14:14,870 --> 00:14:11,939 starting to surface too from these two 254 00:14:17,900 --> 00:14:14,880 soldiers and it's turning out to be a 255 00:14:20,990 --> 00:14:17,910 pretty crazy situation Mike Pompeo said 256 00:14:23,269 --> 00:14:21,000 he is gonna do everything he can to get 257 00:14:25,250 --> 00:14:23,279 these two guys released and back into 258 00:14:26,809 --> 00:14:25,260 the United States as soon as possible 259 00:14:30,350 --> 00:14:26,819 next story 260 00:14:33,199 --> 00:14:30,360 he thought that now this is 261 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:33,209 talk about the apocalypse right the 262 00:14:40,550 --> 00:14:35,850 lifting of the veil the four horsemen 263 00:14:43,670 --> 00:14:40,560 the end of days oh yeah no you know I 264 00:14:45,530 --> 00:14:43,680 have my doubts I just think I believe in 265 00:14:47,389 --> 00:14:45,540 this country I believe in the planet and 266 00:14:47,980 --> 00:14:47,399 everything's gonna be just fine and so 267 00:14:51,319 --> 00:14:47,990 forth 268 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:51,329 but and there's always a but and then 269 00:15:00,970 --> 00:14:56,370 there's this story Wendy's is out of 270 00:15:09,530 --> 00:15:05,920 Wendy's seriously Wendy's is out of beef 271 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:09,540 one in five Wendy's restaurants across 272 00:15:18,470 --> 00:15:13,250 the United States have removed 273 00:15:20,990 --> 00:15:18,480 hamburgers from their menu Wendy's 274 00:15:23,810 --> 00:15:21,000 expects the beef shortage that is 275 00:15:26,630 --> 00:15:23,820 affecting about 1,000 of its United 276 00:15:30,370 --> 00:15:26,640 States restaurants to continue into the 277 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:30,380 foreseeable future the end of days 278 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:32,690 that's right 279 00:15:39,259 --> 00:15:35,730 analysts scour the online menus of 280 00:15:42,949 --> 00:15:39,269 Wendy's 5500 united states restaurants 281 00:15:46,389 --> 00:15:42,959 and found that one in five are not 282 00:15:53,660 --> 00:15:46,399 selling hamburgers or other beef items 283 00:15:57,259 --> 00:15:53,670 instead they're highlighting chicken and 284 00:15:59,180 --> 00:15:57,269 now I know and now all the sudden when I 285 00:16:00,860 --> 00:15:59,190 read this the other day and I thought 286 00:16:02,810 --> 00:16:00,870 man I'm gonna hold off on this this is 287 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:02,820 this is fear porn right here this is 288 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:05,490 this is promoting the madness I don't 289 00:16:10,850 --> 00:16:07,290 know if this is a zone we need to go 290 00:16:14,420 --> 00:16:10,860 into let's refrain from reporting on the 291 00:16:19,519 --> 00:16:14,430 Wendy's apocalypse but I want Wendy's 292 00:16:23,090 --> 00:16:19,529 now I do man I want a Wendy's double 293 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:23,100 cheeseburger with the square with the 294 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:24,930 squirt cheese and the lettuce of the 295 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:29,010 tomato and the ketchup the mustard right 296 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:33,690 Wendy's fries a frosty those Wendy's 297 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:37,290 fries that you dip into the frosty and 298 00:16:42,710 --> 00:16:39,930 the chili the chili with that Wendy's 299 00:16:44,900 --> 00:16:42,720 yellow butter looking melted 300 00:16:47,030 --> 00:16:44,910 hot sauce thing that you put all man 301 00:16:53,330 --> 00:16:47,040 with onions I'm the cheese on the top I 302 00:16:55,430 --> 00:16:53,340 just want Wendy's I do all right here we 303 00:16:58,250 --> 00:16:55,440 go another sign of the apocalypse has 304 00:17:04,490 --> 00:16:58,260 arrived I'm reporting this to you as a 305 00:17:08,540 --> 00:17:04,500 public service announcement 19,000 483 306 00:17:12,860 --> 00:17:08,550 teens in Georgia have just received 307 00:17:20,350 --> 00:17:12,870 their driver's licenses without a road 308 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:20,360 test seriously 309 00:17:29,780 --> 00:17:26,730 Wisconsin announced this week that it 310 00:17:33,110 --> 00:17:29,790 will start doing the same thing for 16 311 00:17:34,460 --> 00:17:33,120 and 17 year olds starting on Monday the 312 00:17:38,300 --> 00:17:34,470 Wisconsin Department of Transportation 313 00:17:41,330 --> 00:17:38,310 estimates that out of the 16,000 road 314 00:17:44,570 --> 00:17:41,340 test requests that have been on hold its 315 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:44,580 new program will allow 10,000 of those 316 00:17:53,530 --> 00:17:47,610 requests to be eligible for a driver's 317 00:17:56,110 --> 00:17:53,540 license with a waiver and no road test 318 00:17:58,220 --> 00:17:56,120 yep that right there 319 00:18:00,230 --> 00:17:58,230 forget about what everybody else is 320 00:18:03,350 --> 00:18:00,240 saying that right there is another 321 00:18:08,870 --> 00:18:03,360 reason to extend lockdowns keep those 322 00:18:10,610 --> 00:18:08,880 kids off the road yeah man think about 323 00:18:13,910 --> 00:18:10,620 think about think about all those kids 324 00:18:14,780 --> 00:18:13,920 that that Arthur Marotta I can't 325 00:18:24,100 --> 00:18:14,790 parallel park 326 00:18:32,270 --> 00:18:28,460 man is it that a rite of passage right 327 00:18:35,150 --> 00:18:32,280 your road to becoming an adult one of 328 00:18:36,860 --> 00:18:35,160 those things is the stress of the 329 00:18:40,100 --> 00:18:36,870 driving test I got a lot more to talk 330 00:18:41,870 --> 00:18:40,110 about tonight one day it'll be tomorrow 331 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:41,880 night on fade to black I want one of you 332 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:44,490 fader nods right here in Twitter to 333 00:18:53,890 --> 00:18:49,530 remind you remind me to tell you what 334 00:18:56,540 --> 00:18:53,900 happened with my mom's car on the day of 335 00:19:00,690 --> 00:18:56,550 my driving test 336 00:19:03,270 --> 00:19:00,700 that's right it's a conspiracy - my dad 337 00:19:05,930 --> 00:19:03,280 doesn't even know he's gonna find out 338 00:19:11,310 --> 00:19:09,930 this broadcast all right the Starworks 339 00:19:13,350 --> 00:19:11,320 UFOs in artificial intelligence 340 00:19:15,780 --> 00:19:13,360 conference in Laughlin Nevada is 341 00:19:17,970 --> 00:19:15,790 November 5th through the 8th I'm gonna 342 00:19:21,150 --> 00:19:17,980 be there go and check out Starworks 343 00:19:24,090 --> 00:19:21,160 usa.com for tickets and info the 344 00:19:26,310 --> 00:19:24,100 disclosure fest event right here in Los 345 00:19:29,430 --> 00:19:26,320 Angeles at the historic Los Angeles Park 346 00:19:33,150 --> 00:19:29,440 in downtown Los Angeles is now scheduled 347 00:19:35,700 --> 00:19:33,160 for August 8th the new dates are up you 348 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:35,710 can go to disclosure fest dot org for 349 00:19:39,900 --> 00:19:37,570 all of your information let's get this 350 00:19:46,550 --> 00:19:39,910 show crackin happy birthday to today 351 00:19:51,390 --> 00:19:46,560 George Clooney is 59 years old Bob Seger 352 00:19:51,660 --> 00:19:51,400 Bob Seger 75 years old can you believe 353 00:19:56,580 --> 00:19:51,670 it 354 00:19:59,160 --> 00:19:56,590 on this day in history 1937 the airship 355 00:20:00,000 --> 00:19:59,170 Hindenburg the largest durable ever 356 00:20:02,910 --> 00:20:00,010 built 357 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:02,920 Zeppelin and the pride of Nazi Germany 358 00:20:08,070 --> 00:20:05,530 bursts into flames upon touching upon 359 00:20:11,730 --> 00:20:08,080 its mooring mast in Lakehurst New Jersey 360 00:20:13,110 --> 00:20:11,740 killing 36 passengers and all crew 361 00:20:15,810 --> 00:20:13,120 members there you go no I think some 362 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:15,820 crew members survived yeah hit the 363 00:20:23,910 --> 00:20:18,690 ground at least they did in the movie 364 00:20:27,860 --> 00:20:23,920 fader fact the theoretical physicist Ted 365 00:20:32,550 --> 00:20:27,870 Taylor okay now listen to me 366 00:20:35,550 --> 00:20:32,560 ignited a cigarette with thermal energy 367 00:20:41,420 --> 00:20:35,560 released by a nuclear bomb test on June 368 00:20:45,750 --> 00:20:41,430 1st 1952 this is a vetted Fator fact 369 00:20:48,750 --> 00:20:45,760 Taylor used a mirror to focus the light 370 00:20:52,590 --> 00:20:48,760 from the detonation onto the tip of his 371 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:52,600 palm all straight that's right no 372 00:20:59,070 --> 00:20:55,930 filters he lit his cigarette during 373 00:21:01,200 --> 00:20:59,080 operation tumbler snapper which was a 374 00:21:03,570 --> 00:21:01,210 series of test blasts orchestrated by 375 00:21:07,950 --> 00:21:03,580 the United States military at the Nevada 376 00:21:09,900 --> 00:21:07,960 Test Site and that is your fader fact 377 00:21:11,310 --> 00:21:09,910 tonight Nick Redfern is here 378 00:21:13,470 --> 00:21:11,320 he's gonna be talking about his new book 379 00:21:16,650 --> 00:21:13,480 it is called the Rendlesham forest UFO 380 00:21:19,770 --> 00:21:16,660 conspiracy a close encounter exposed as 381 00:21:22,140 --> 00:21:19,780 a top government experiment so stay stay 382 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:22,150 right there it's gonna Nick is gonna be 383 00:21:37,289 --> 00:21:23,530 joining us at the bottom of the hour let 384 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:37,299 me hit this River moon coffee I just 385 00:21:45,060 --> 00:21:41,770 needed a moment I needed a moment I did 386 00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:45,070 happy birthday Bob Bob Seger what's your 387 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:46,960 favorite Bob Seger song I want to see 388 00:21:52,399 --> 00:21:49,450 right now on Twitter he's got a zillion 389 00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:52,409 hits been doing it forever what's your 390 00:21:58,020 --> 00:21:57,610 favorite Bob Seger song yeah there you 391 00:22:00,930 --> 00:21:58,030 go 392 00:22:04,770 --> 00:22:00,940 well okay I popped it up in Twitter 393 00:22:07,020 --> 00:22:04,780 earlier today NASA is getting ready to 394 00:22:09,779 --> 00:22:07,030 send its next Mars rover to the Red 395 00:22:13,310 --> 00:22:09,789 Planet later this year and that mission 396 00:22:16,020 --> 00:22:13,320 will also carry ingenuity a brand new 397 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:16,030 helicopter robot that will attempt to 398 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:18,570 make history by becoming the first 399 00:22:25,130 --> 00:22:22,090 vehicle to perform a powered atmospheric 400 00:22:28,049 --> 00:22:25,140 flight on another planet - big deal 401 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:28,059 NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory created 402 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:31,210 a trailer to show you approximately what 403 00:22:35,460 --> 00:22:33,610 that flight could look like when it 404 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:35,470 takes place sometime after the targeted 405 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:39,970 February 18 2021 arrival date for the 406 00:22:47,010 --> 00:22:44,530 Mars 2020 mission okay now we have 407 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:47,020 posted the links for the ingenuity video 408 00:22:53,970 --> 00:22:49,450 up in our Twitter feed for all of you to 409 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:53,980 check out and if you have it pop it up 410 00:22:58,020 --> 00:22:55,450 there and Twitter for me so I can do 411 00:23:00,060 --> 00:22:58,030 retweet I want everybody to see it Kevin 412 00:23:01,460 --> 00:23:00,070 corporate says Night Moves Hollywood 413 00:23:06,060 --> 00:23:01,470 nights all of those are pretty good 414 00:23:08,460 --> 00:23:06,070 those are pretty good ingenuity may look 415 00:23:10,380 --> 00:23:08,470 like a simple dual roller drone but it's 416 00:23:12,630 --> 00:23:10,390 actually a groundbreaking piece of 417 00:23:15,060 --> 00:23:12,640 engineering that is to overcome 418 00:23:16,980 --> 00:23:15,070 significant technical challenges in 419 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:16,990 order to complete its mission of 420 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:20,290 performing short altitude hops on Mars 421 00:23:27,539 --> 00:23:23,610 now that's the only goal here 422 00:23:31,350 --> 00:23:27,549 to fly and the four pound craft doesn't 423 00:23:34,019 --> 00:23:31,360 have any other instruments nothing it's 424 00:23:36,659 --> 00:23:34,029 just a set of blades and it's 425 00:23:39,180 --> 00:23:36,669 essentially a demonstrator that will set 426 00:23:42,090 --> 00:23:39,190 up the design and development of future 427 00:23:44,549 --> 00:23:42,100 aerial exploration craft to help us 428 00:23:47,789 --> 00:23:44,559 study Mars now okay I get all of that 429 00:23:50,999 --> 00:23:47,799 right even flying the softball-sized 430 00:23:53,730 --> 00:23:51,009 main body of ingenuity is an achievement 431 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:53,740 because flying on Mars requires so much 432 00:23:56,970 --> 00:23:55,690 more lift than it does here on earth due 433 00:23:58,769 --> 00:23:56,980 to the nature of the planet's atmosphere 434 00:24:01,139 --> 00:23:58,779 now follow me on this 435 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:01,149 the helicopters test flights are only 436 00:24:05,759 --> 00:24:03,610 gonna last about 90 seconds each and 437 00:24:09,269 --> 00:24:05,769 they're gonna climb only to a height of 438 00:24:11,970 --> 00:24:09,279 about 16 feet in the air all right not 439 00:24:15,869 --> 00:24:11,980 even a two-story building right which is 440 00:24:21,139 --> 00:24:15,879 easy to do here on earth but 16 feet 16 441 00:24:24,869 --> 00:24:21,149 feet on Mars is equivalent to about 442 00:24:26,460 --> 00:24:24,879 100,000 feet on earth so imagine flying 443 00:24:27,989 --> 00:24:26,470 a drone here on earth up to a hundred 444 00:24:29,039 --> 00:24:27,999 thousand feet well think about that 445 00:24:33,509 --> 00:24:29,049 right okay 446 00:24:35,159 --> 00:24:33,519 now NASA's Mars 2020 mission is 447 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:35,169 currently scheduled to launch between 448 00:24:39,899 --> 00:24:37,090 July 17th and August 5th of this year 449 00:24:41,879 --> 00:24:39,909 because that's that optimal window for 450 00:24:43,769 --> 00:24:41,889 making your trip to Mars because you can 451 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:43,779 only do this every two years and that is 452 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:46,450 due to the orbits of around the Sun of 453 00:24:50,850 --> 00:24:48,970 Mars and Earth and it's when we are 454 00:24:53,909 --> 00:24:50,860 closest and we've just got to do with 455 00:24:55,109 --> 00:24:53,919 that which brings up a few questions 456 00:24:59,299 --> 00:24:55,119 first 457 00:25:03,560 --> 00:24:59,309 why doesn't their drone have an HD video 458 00:25:05,970 --> 00:25:03,570 camera mounted on a gimbal 459 00:25:09,509 --> 00:25:05,980 shouldn't this have been the first it's 460 00:25:12,629 --> 00:25:09,519 not the only consideration in its test 461 00:25:14,489 --> 00:25:12,639 design this is the only reason to have a 462 00:25:20,940 --> 00:25:14,499 drone of any kind in the first place 463 00:25:24,139 --> 00:25:20,950 novena video means no drone it's useless 464 00:25:26,210 --> 00:25:24,149 would you buy a drone today at any price 465 00:25:32,030 --> 00:25:26,220 without a camera 466 00:25:34,580 --> 00:25:32,040 he wouldn't now listen now 467 00:25:36,380 --> 00:25:34,590 you can test this thing all you want to 468 00:25:38,690 --> 00:25:36,390 make sure you can build something bigger 469 00:25:41,330 --> 00:25:38,700 and better in the future I get that but 470 00:25:43,790 --> 00:25:41,340 not having HD video on board just 471 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:43,800 doesn't make any sense it doesn't I 472 00:25:49,610 --> 00:25:46,290 don't know how it got past this face but 473 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:49,620 it did next and in a strange way this 474 00:25:54,530 --> 00:25:51,530 may be more important than the video but 475 00:25:57,500 --> 00:25:54,540 they kind of go together which is this 476 00:25:59,780 --> 00:25:57,510 we all know about the slow-moving Rovers 477 00:26:03,320 --> 00:25:59,790 on Mars in fact we're tired of them but 478 00:26:07,070 --> 00:26:03,330 NASA has something places that just 479 00:26:08,360 --> 00:26:07,080 don't seem to matter it hey don't go 480 00:26:11,030 --> 00:26:08,370 where the water is they don't go over 481 00:26:14,170 --> 00:26:11,040 the ices they don't go where the crazy 482 00:26:17,060 --> 00:26:14,180 lava tubes are and the cave systems and 483 00:26:19,250 --> 00:26:17,070 no they don't do any of that they just 484 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:19,260 go to some spot where apparently there 485 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:22,890 is nothing interesting all right why not 486 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:27,450 deliver the ingenuity to a location that 487 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:34,890 has ice why not do that water and a cave 488 00:26:42,530 --> 00:26:40,890 system there with that video camera you 489 00:26:44,930 --> 00:26:42,540 could start shooting video in your 490 00:26:47,290 --> 00:26:44,940 testing phase of things that are and 491 00:26:52,630 --> 00:26:47,300 this is the word I want to use 492 00:26:55,910 --> 00:26:52,640 interesting I'm just saying right now 493 00:26:58,640 --> 00:26:55,920 and the second part of the second part 494 00:27:01,280 --> 00:26:58,650 the one and the two in the a and the B 495 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:01,290 is this with the ability to go somewhere 496 00:27:05,450 --> 00:27:03,210 quickly without having to wait for the 497 00:27:08,420 --> 00:27:05,460 rover to travel a couple of dozen yards 498 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:08,430 and for that we wait for weeks and a 499 00:27:14,120 --> 00:27:11,610 month at a time the ability to do that 500 00:27:18,770 --> 00:27:14,130 is a really big deal why not have some 501 00:27:22,810 --> 00:27:18,780 simple soil testing stuff a spoon just a 502 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:22,820 little robotic spoon drone technology 503 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:26,970 today is so advanced and stable that's 504 00:27:31,250 --> 00:27:29,010 the thing even the most inexpensive 505 00:27:33,830 --> 00:27:31,260 stuff out there is really cool and it 506 00:27:36,470 --> 00:27:33,840 does things I've got a cheap drone over 507 00:27:41,300 --> 00:27:36,480 here that's got a friggin nerf cannon on 508 00:27:43,250 --> 00:27:41,310 it it's got a nerve cannon on it you can 509 00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:43,260 have a little robotic a little spoon you 510 00:27:46,830 --> 00:27:45,130 can go back to the rover 511 00:27:49,350 --> 00:27:46,840 drop the dirt off that you just 512 00:27:51,900 --> 00:27:49,360 retrieved from 45 seconds away of flight 513 00:27:57,660 --> 00:27:51,910 at 16 feet think about that I'm just 514 00:28:00,200 --> 00:27:57,670 saying man I'm not sure why we aren't 515 00:28:03,780 --> 00:28:00,210 seeing something more advanced from 516 00:28:07,940 --> 00:28:03,790 private drone company that was developed 517 00:28:10,530 --> 00:28:07,950 for this first flight on the Red Planet 518 00:28:12,570 --> 00:28:10,540 I'm just saying and it's just like once 519 00:28:15,180 --> 00:28:12,580 again and I know it's cool you know but 520 00:28:15,990 --> 00:28:15,190 we so we're gonna see the rope this is 521 00:28:18,810 --> 00:28:16,000 the deal 522 00:28:23,100 --> 00:28:18,820 think about this we're gonna see 523 00:28:24,930 --> 00:28:23,110 pictures of the drone are we gonna see 524 00:28:28,830 --> 00:28:24,940 video of the drone flying are we just 525 00:28:30,510 --> 00:28:28,840 gonna see pictures we don't got HD video 526 00:28:32,940 --> 00:28:30,520 footage from there could you imagine how 527 00:28:39,900 --> 00:28:32,950 cool that would be the drone flying 528 00:28:45,300 --> 00:28:39,910 around the rover in HD duh I don't get 529 00:28:46,500 --> 00:28:45,310 it man I just don't get NASA this is 530 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:46,510 faded black I'm your Jimmy Church 531 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:48,490 tonight Nick Redfern is here we're gonna 532 00:28:56,100 --> 00:28:50,770 be talking about his new book the 533 00:28:58,140 --> 00:28:56,110 Rendlesham forest UFO conspiracy a close 534 00:29:01,200 --> 00:28:58,150 encounter exposed as a top government 535 00:29:03,990 --> 00:29:01,210 top secret government experiment stay 536 00:29:05,550 --> 00:29:04,000 right there we'll be right back with 537 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:05,560 Nick Redfern um euros to be Church 538 00:29:09,630 --> 00:29:07,290 follow me on Twitter I change radio 539 00:29:12,690 --> 00:29:09,640 email is Jimmy at Jimmy Church radio 540 00:29:15,420 --> 00:29:12,700 calm that's right on the game changer 541 00:29:16,550 --> 00:29:15,430 networked in kg RA the planets stay with 542 00:29:36,090 --> 00:29:16,560 us we'll be right back 543 00:29:36,100 --> 00:29:42,570 [Music] 544 00:29:47,130 --> 00:29:45,090 this is Nicole Church daughter of 545 00:29:49,110 --> 00:29:47,140 you-know-who and you're listening to 546 00:29:54,330 --> 00:29:49,120 fade to black on Jimmy Church radio.com 547 00:29:58,780 --> 00:29:54,340 and the GameChanger Network you're 548 00:29:58,790 --> 00:30:07,760 [Music] 549 00:30:16,620 --> 00:30:14,340 radio when you take the beams from 550 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:16,630 Central America with dashes of 551 00:30:21,570 --> 00:30:19,210 Indonesian and African mixed in and then 552 00:30:24,450 --> 00:30:21,580 roasted to the dark side of fade to 553 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:24,460 black you create the ultimate brew of 554 00:30:31,350 --> 00:30:27,610 Fringe introducing the fade to black 555 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:31,360 blend from River moon coffee yes River 556 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:33,970 moons darkest customized roast was 557 00:30:39,990 --> 00:30:36,970 created for the love of fade to black 558 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is click on 572 00:31:24,660 --> 00:31:20,860 the podcast banner over at Jimmy Church 573 00:31:26,700 --> 00:31:24,670 radio.com OMG people are jumping on 574 00:31:29,250 --> 00:31:26,710 board to the life change tea regiment 575 00:31:31,650 --> 00:31:29,260 brew steep and drink for a channel 576 00:31:33,540 --> 00:31:31,660 tastes great cleanse it's changing how 577 00:31:34,050 --> 00:31:33,550 they feel see what everybody's talking 578 00:31:36,780 --> 00:31:34,060 about 579 00:31:39,180 --> 00:31:36,790 log on to get the t.com that's get the 580 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:39,190 tea calm life change tea AIDS and 581 00:31:43,500 --> 00:31:41,050 digestive slow down and helps people get 582 00:31:45,540 --> 00:31:43,510 moving down a healthy path we won't make 583 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:45,550 claims we'll just let you decide 584 00:31:49,350 --> 00:31:47,170 experience is much better than a 585 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:49,360 commercial anyway if you want results 586 00:31:53,790 --> 00:31:51,730 log on to get the tea comm and purchase 587 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:53,800 your super strength cleansing tea you 588 00:31:56,100 --> 00:31:55,450 won't be disappointed and if you're 589 00:31:58,410 --> 00:31:56,110 looking for 590 00:32:00,120 --> 00:31:58,420 mind body suggestions go to youtube and 591 00:32:00,630 --> 00:32:00,130 punch in the search bar health matters 592 00:32:09,690 --> 00:32:00,640 now 593 00:32:12,210 --> 00:32:09,700 get the tea calm for super strength tea 594 00:32:14,130 --> 00:32:12,220 and you too health matters now 595 00:32:17,490 --> 00:32:14,140 that's health matters now for valuable 596 00:32:22,850 --> 00:32:17,500 suggestions get the t.com the Teta makes 597 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:22,860 you go 9 out of 10 geneticists agreed 598 00:32:30,419 --> 00:32:25,090 fade to black 599 00:32:33,799 --> 00:32:30,429 is not your father's radio show on the 600 00:32:38,700 --> 00:32:33,809 game changer radio network and k gr a 601 00:32:40,590 --> 00:32:38,710 the planets hi this is rob reiner from 602 00:33:03,400 --> 00:32:40,600 apple and you're listening to jimmy 603 00:33:09,790 --> 00:33:05,490 [Music] 604 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:14,390 walking back 605 00:33:20,030 --> 00:33:17,080 fade to black I'm your host Jimmy Church 606 00:33:22,490 --> 00:33:20,040 all right let's do this tonight Nick 607 00:33:24,290 --> 00:33:22,500 Redfern is here tomorrow night is Fator 608 00:33:27,110 --> 00:33:24,300 night with open lines all night long so 609 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:27,120 get ready for that and Nick is here 610 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:29,130 tonight to discuss his new book the 611 00:33:34,070 --> 00:33:31,770 Rendlesham forest UFO conspiracy the 612 00:33:36,740 --> 00:33:34,080 close encounter exposed as a top secret 613 00:33:38,690 --> 00:33:36,750 government experiment Nick works 614 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:38,700 full-time as an author he's a lecturer 615 00:33:43,250 --> 00:33:41,250 journalist he writes about a wide range 616 00:33:46,250 --> 00:33:43,260 of unsolved mysteries including Bigfoot 617 00:33:48,770 --> 00:33:46,260 UFOs Loch Ness aliens government 618 00:33:51,380 --> 00:33:48,780 conspiracies his books include for 619 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:51,390 nobody's eyes only monster files the 620 00:33:56,930 --> 00:33:54,090 world's weirdest places the pyramids and 621 00:33:59,990 --> 00:33:56,940 the Pentagon keep out the real men in 622 00:34:03,020 --> 00:34:00,000 black the NASA conspiracies contact he's 623 00:34:05,150 --> 00:34:03,030 a memoirs of a monster hunter he writes 624 00:34:07,910 --> 00:34:05,160 for UFO magazine and mysterious universe 625 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:07,920 where I go and plagiarize my best 626 00:34:12,379 --> 00:34:09,810 material I want to thank Nick in advance 627 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:12,389 for that Nick has appeared on numerous 628 00:34:17,300 --> 00:34:15,210 television shows including Fox News The 629 00:34:21,619 --> 00:34:17,310 History Channel's ancient aliens monster 630 00:34:24,230 --> 00:34:21,629 quest and UFO Hunters vh1's legend 631 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:24,240 hunters National Geographic channel's 632 00:34:30,230 --> 00:34:27,210 the truth about UFOs and para natural 633 00:34:32,899 --> 00:34:30,240 and BBC's out-of-this-world msnbc's 634 00:34:34,490 --> 00:34:32,909 countdown and sci-fi channels proof 635 00:34:36,590 --> 00:34:34,500 positive and I would like to welcome 636 00:34:38,930 --> 00:34:36,600 back to fade to black our friend Nick 637 00:34:41,780 --> 00:34:38,940 Redfern Nick good evening man how are 638 00:34:44,300 --> 00:34:41,790 you tonight hey Jimmy I'm doing good 639 00:34:46,369 --> 00:34:44,310 thanks as you going well things are good 640 00:34:48,139 --> 00:34:46,379 over here as good as to be expected and 641 00:34:50,450 --> 00:34:48,149 we don't even need to go there you and I 642 00:34:53,899 --> 00:34:50,460 both know we're just gonna ride this 643 00:34:57,770 --> 00:34:53,909 thing out whatever it is so oh man so 644 00:35:01,070 --> 00:34:57,780 aside from that Nick I am going to go 645 00:35:05,270 --> 00:35:01,080 right here I consider you a pretty 646 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:05,280 low-key guy your dress code suggests 647 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:08,370 otherwise but you are a pretty low-key 648 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:11,850 guy right you you're very prolific you 649 00:35:15,830 --> 00:35:13,770 write a lot you get it out there but 650 00:35:18,470 --> 00:35:15,840 you're not you're not out there tipping 651 00:35:20,630 --> 00:35:18,480 over cards and throwing trash cans 652 00:35:23,599 --> 00:35:20,640 through windows that's not what you do 653 00:35:26,990 --> 00:35:23,609 maybe but that's not what you do but you 654 00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:27,000 must be enjoying as 655 00:35:33,260 --> 00:35:31,250 what kicking back and enjoying the the 656 00:35:36,340 --> 00:35:33,270 controversy that is starting to surround 657 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:36,350 this book what what is that like for you 658 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:39,690 well you know I mean I think most of the 659 00:35:44,210 --> 00:35:41,970 books that I write to a degree you know 660 00:35:47,060 --> 00:35:44,220 are controversial but as you said in the 661 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:47,070 introduction most of what I do is sort 662 00:35:53,810 --> 00:35:50,610 of surrounded by UFOs Bigfoot Loch Ness 663 00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:53,820 monster Chupacabra man in black 664 00:35:59,900 --> 00:35:57,210 shadow people black eyed children yes 665 00:36:02,420 --> 00:35:59,910 sort of paranormal side of things I'm 666 00:36:05,570 --> 00:36:02,430 not really someone who you know delves 667 00:36:07,550 --> 00:36:05,580 deep into the world of conspiracies that 668 00:36:11,540 --> 00:36:07,560 kind of thing you know I'm sort of more 669 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:11,550 into the paranormal UFOs cryptozoology 670 00:36:20,150 --> 00:36:17,490 the fun the fly stuff exactly and you 671 00:36:20,660 --> 00:36:20,160 know I think like I said to varying 672 00:36:23,950 --> 00:36:20,670 degrees 673 00:36:27,410 --> 00:36:23,960 you know the provokes controversy but 674 00:36:30,890 --> 00:36:27,420 you know I'm fine with that I mean the 675 00:36:32,570 --> 00:36:30,900 way I look at it is that when we're 676 00:36:35,900 --> 00:36:32,580 investigating these things 677 00:36:38,660 --> 00:36:35,910 anything's turn up the turn happens to 678 00:36:41,990 --> 00:36:38,670 be highly controversial well let's let's 679 00:36:45,350 --> 00:36:42,000 debate it you know let's look into it 680 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:45,360 and what I try and do is to you know 681 00:36:51,230 --> 00:36:47,450 find the evidence the facts the data 682 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:51,240 rather than focus on the I want to 683 00:36:56,030 --> 00:36:53,010 believe aspect you know because that 684 00:36:59,990 --> 00:36:56,040 doesn't help anybody you know I feel 685 00:37:00,770 --> 00:37:00,000 that it's important to present what I 686 00:37:03,530 --> 00:37:00,780 found 687 00:37:06,260 --> 00:37:03,540 regardless of whether people you know 688 00:37:08,690 --> 00:37:06,270 feel that I've got the right theory for 689 00:37:11,420 --> 00:37:08,700 Rendlesham or Bigfoot or whatever I 690 00:37:14,270 --> 00:37:11,430 think it's important that we get the 691 00:37:16,070 --> 00:37:14,280 data out there rather than just tell 692 00:37:17,810 --> 00:37:16,080 people what they want to hear you know 693 00:37:21,230 --> 00:37:17,820 this - there's far too much of that 694 00:37:24,140 --> 00:37:21,240 within these fields already you know a 695 00:37:26,900 --> 00:37:24,150 situation where people sort of carefully 696 00:37:29,450 --> 00:37:26,910 and calculatedly decide to write this 697 00:37:31,790 --> 00:37:29,460 book or that book because they think you 698 00:37:35,930 --> 00:37:31,800 know it's going to sell more copies well 699 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:35,940 my view is just just go where the 700 00:37:41,060 --> 00:37:38,370 evidence is and if people like it people 701 00:37:43,790 --> 00:37:41,070 don't like it you know I 702 00:37:46,390 --> 00:37:43,800 have an impact on how I go about my 703 00:37:48,950 --> 00:37:46,400 research or writing I present it for 704 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:48,960 people to see if they like it that's 705 00:37:54,260 --> 00:37:52,050 great if they don't well that's how it 706 00:37:55,190 --> 00:37:54,270 goes you know well see you're a 707 00:38:01,580 --> 00:37:55,200 professional 708 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:01,590 your gig some books are gonna take off 709 00:38:07,010 --> 00:38:04,650 and run some aren't some articles you 710 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:07,020 can write the most brilliant piece in 711 00:38:13,430 --> 00:38:11,010 the history of Nick Redfern on your blog 712 00:38:16,310 --> 00:38:13,440 and and kick back and go that felt 713 00:38:18,530 --> 00:38:16,320 pretty good and nobody reads it right 714 00:38:20,540 --> 00:38:18,540 some things and there's other things 715 00:38:22,730 --> 00:38:20,550 that you have probably written and 716 00:38:25,700 --> 00:38:22,740 thought well okay whatever and suddenly 717 00:38:28,550 --> 00:38:25,710 that takes off but you do it enough to 718 00:38:30,530 --> 00:38:28,560 know that if this is the way things are 719 00:38:33,530 --> 00:38:30,540 you're not going to concern yourself 720 00:38:35,750 --> 00:38:33,540 over the selling or the numbers of 721 00:38:37,220 --> 00:38:35,760 things if it happens great if it doesn't 722 00:38:39,170 --> 00:38:37,230 well you're going to be doing something 723 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:39,180 else next month anyway you've got 724 00:38:44,030 --> 00:38:41,490 another project that you're currently 725 00:38:49,340 --> 00:38:44,040 working on it's just what a professional 726 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:49,350 journalist does right yes example the my 727 00:38:53,810 --> 00:38:52,290 sort of best-selling book is actually 728 00:38:56,930 --> 00:38:53,820 one that I did on Bigfoot called the 729 00:38:59,420 --> 00:38:56,940 Bigfoot book that is my biggest selling 730 00:39:01,910 --> 00:38:59,430 once that kind of tells you know what 731 00:39:04,670 --> 00:39:01,920 people like in terms of what I write 732 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:04,680 about but but you you write when you 733 00:39:09,350 --> 00:39:07,170 said about you know what books are sort 734 00:39:11,300 --> 00:39:09,360 of popular and which ones aren't one of 735 00:39:15,740 --> 00:39:11,310 the things I can tell you for sure is 736 00:39:19,010 --> 00:39:15,750 that the books my books that sell the 737 00:39:24,860 --> 00:39:19,020 most are the ones that are sort of Pro 738 00:39:29,270 --> 00:39:24,870 UFO Pro alien rather ones that I've 739 00:39:32,990 --> 00:39:29,280 written about we may sort of destroy a 740 00:39:36,410 --> 00:39:33,000 sacred cow kind of you know story new 741 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:36,420 mala ji I found those books don't sell 742 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:39,090 well and it's and it basically comes 743 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:42,090 down to one thing the books that I write 744 00:39:50,450 --> 00:39:47,010 that are there sell fairly well are the 745 00:39:52,460 --> 00:39:50,460 ones that have a like a positive impact 746 00:39:54,570 --> 00:39:52,470 on you follow gee if I was to write a 747 00:39:59,010 --> 00:39:54,580 book saying you know this fame 748 00:40:01,830 --> 00:39:59,020 case isn't you know as it seems to be 749 00:40:04,110 --> 00:40:01,840 those books don't sell now it might seem 750 00:40:05,700 --> 00:40:04,120 strange saying that now because you know 751 00:40:09,060 --> 00:40:05,710 with the new book just come out the 752 00:40:11,060 --> 00:40:09,070 Rendlesham forest book there's no doubt 753 00:40:14,460 --> 00:40:11,070 that the vast majority of the people 754 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:14,470 listening to this and possibly buying 755 00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:18,370 the book I'm pretty confident but they 756 00:40:23,550 --> 00:40:21,610 won't buy the book now that might seem 757 00:40:27,020 --> 00:40:23,560 strange that an author would say that 758 00:40:31,830 --> 00:40:27,030 but you know if nothing else I'm 100% 759 00:40:34,250 --> 00:40:31,840 truthful you know and an open wide and I 760 00:40:38,670 --> 00:40:34,260 can tell you that writing books on 761 00:40:41,010 --> 00:40:38,680 things that you know destroy this case 762 00:40:42,180 --> 00:40:41,020 or that case they don't sell but that 763 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:42,190 doesn't start you know but that won't 764 00:40:47,550 --> 00:40:44,530 stop me from but with the Rendlesham one 765 00:40:50,010 --> 00:40:47,560 you know Rendlesham he's one of it sort 766 00:40:54,930 --> 00:40:50,020 of like the UK's Roswell in terms of 767 00:40:57,290 --> 00:40:54,940 visibility and fame you know and and the 768 00:41:00,870 --> 00:40:57,300 new book looks at the angle of 769 00:41:03,720 --> 00:41:00,880 Rendlesham being not a UFO event but 770 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:03,730 being a secret experiment using 771 00:41:10,110 --> 00:41:07,290 Holograms and to try and determine how 772 00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:10,120 people could be fooled on the 773 00:41:15,780 --> 00:41:13,450 battlefield that kind of thing now a lot 774 00:41:19,350 --> 00:41:15,790 of people might sort of say how can they 775 00:41:23,670 --> 00:41:19,360 do that you know and and a lot of people 776 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:23,680 I'm sure will buy the book because you 777 00:41:27,630 --> 00:41:25,330 know I'm not saying what they want to 778 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:27,640 hear but I mean what am I supposed to do 779 00:41:32,910 --> 00:41:30,970 just lie and just tell stories that uh 780 00:41:36,930 --> 00:41:32,920 that people want to hear you know that's 781 00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:36,940 not my approach and many people like the 782 00:41:41,340 --> 00:41:38,770 book and they or they don't like the 783 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:41,350 book well that likes it like I said 784 00:41:49,650 --> 00:41:44,890 that's how it goes and but I'm not gonna 785 00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:49,660 change my approach you know to to try 786 00:41:54,630 --> 00:41:51,970 and you know sell more books or whatever 787 00:41:57,030 --> 00:41:54,640 I mean that's if you do that you 788 00:41:59,220 --> 00:41:57,040 compromising you are your own mix to 789 00:42:02,730 --> 00:41:59,230 start with you know a hundred percent if 790 00:42:04,890 --> 00:42:02,740 you start writing books because you're 791 00:42:06,510 --> 00:42:04,900 concerned about numbers and you want to 792 00:42:07,710 --> 00:42:06,520 change who you are 793 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:07,720 that's like 794 00:42:11,820 --> 00:42:09,130 you know you and I always go to the 795 00:42:14,190 --> 00:42:11,830 music and nology analogy right but if 796 00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:14,200 you're a band that's writing songs for 797 00:42:21,349 --> 00:42:18,690 an album because you want to sell albums 798 00:42:25,109 --> 00:42:21,359 then you're not an artist or a painter 799 00:42:27,990 --> 00:42:25,119 or anything else that's that's not how 800 00:42:31,020 --> 00:42:28,000 it works but I do other I actually want 801 00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:31,030 about oh go ahead yes I'm not on the 802 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:34,210 music angle as you know my my favorite 803 00:42:38,670 --> 00:42:37,090 band is the Ramones you know and but the 804 00:42:42,359 --> 00:42:38,680 Ramones made some of the most classic 805 00:42:45,060 --> 00:42:42,369 music but they were never big sellers 806 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:45,070 you know they remain like a cult type 807 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:47,050 band you know throughout their entire 808 00:42:53,070 --> 00:42:50,650 career but they didn't sort of change 809 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:53,080 their ways you know they've sort of it 810 00:42:57,300 --> 00:42:55,330 was still Bowl haircuts and leather 811 00:43:01,589 --> 00:42:57,310 jackets from the start at the end you 812 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:01,599 know and and that's how I kind of make 813 00:43:08,099 --> 00:43:04,570 that analogy you know is that if you're 814 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:08,109 gonna write about controversial things 815 00:43:16,290 --> 00:43:13,570 like UFOs Bigfoot aliens etc etc you 816 00:43:18,720 --> 00:43:16,300 should just go where your heart takes 817 00:43:21,150 --> 00:43:18,730 you in terms of what you're looking for 818 00:43:24,900 --> 00:43:21,160 looking for answers and don't try and 819 00:43:28,740 --> 00:43:24,910 you know make the answers fit in just go 820 00:43:32,220 --> 00:43:28,750 where it takes you and anything if it's 821 00:43:34,890 --> 00:43:32,230 sort of you know when you sort of look 822 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:34,900 into your theory indicates your theories 823 00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:35,890 all that's great 824 00:43:41,130 --> 00:43:38,770 if however when you start to look into 825 00:43:43,260 --> 00:43:41,140 it you think you know holy hell this is 826 00:43:46,079 --> 00:43:43,270 starting to go down a path I didn't 827 00:43:48,210 --> 00:43:46,089 think it was going to go down that 828 00:43:51,089 --> 00:43:48,220 shouldn't stop you from going into that 829 00:43:55,050 --> 00:43:51,099 angle is that one thing you can do is 830 00:43:57,750 --> 00:43:55,060 hide the truth right yeah is that what 831 00:44:01,079 --> 00:43:57,760 happened to you here did you start to 832 00:44:03,630 --> 00:44:01,089 write just another Rendlesham book it 833 00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:03,640 scares me to say those words but as you 834 00:44:09,510 --> 00:44:06,490 were doing the research is that when you 835 00:44:13,290 --> 00:44:09,520 started to change directions well this 836 00:44:15,450 --> 00:44:13,300 one was slightly different because over 837 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:15,460 the years I have sort of got snippets of 838 00:44:20,130 --> 00:44:18,490 information probably going back to the 839 00:44:23,310 --> 00:44:20,140 late 90s 840 00:44:27,090 --> 00:44:23,320 in relation to the idea that Rendlesham 841 00:44:30,830 --> 00:44:27,100 forest was not the landing of a UFO but 842 00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:30,840 it was a secret experiment using 843 00:44:36,300 --> 00:44:34,210 hallucinogens and Holograms and the 844 00:44:39,270 --> 00:44:36,310 purpose being you know you you have the 845 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:39,280 guys in the woods and you watch their 846 00:44:44,910 --> 00:44:43,330 reaction as to how they respond so in 847 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:44,920 other words you can gauge from 848 00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:47,770 experiments like this how on the 849 00:44:51,720 --> 00:44:48,610 battlefield 850 00:44:54,930 --> 00:44:51,730 might react when faced with like a 851 00:44:58,260 --> 00:44:54,940 sophisticated holographic image it may 852 00:45:01,020 --> 00:44:58,270 cause havoc on the on the battlefield 853 00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:01,030 not realizing that what's in front of 854 00:45:04,290 --> 00:45:02,530 them isn't real 855 00:45:07,100 --> 00:45:04,300 so that's kind of the theme of it and 856 00:45:12,450 --> 00:45:07,110 over the years and particularly within 857 00:45:14,940 --> 00:45:12,460 this sort of Rendlesham forest people if 858 00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:14,950 you like in in the UK the researchers in 859 00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:18,850 the UK these stories of sort of 860 00:45:27,420 --> 00:45:22,330 holograms and mind-altering technologies 861 00:45:29,730 --> 00:45:27,430 and creating sort of roses as a means to 862 00:45:33,750 --> 00:45:29,740 you know determine how the human mind 863 00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:33,760 can be altered and and changed and so 864 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:35,410 the years I collected a lot of these 865 00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:38,770 stories and sort of followed you know 866 00:45:44,250 --> 00:45:41,170 the snippets of data tracked a few 867 00:45:46,530 --> 00:45:44,260 people down and it was sort of it was 868 00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:46,540 last year when I felt I'd got enough 869 00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:50,650 material to put something together that 870 00:45:57,780 --> 00:45:54,010 would essentially present the 871 00:45:59,550 --> 00:45:57,790 alternative scene to the conventional 872 00:46:03,300 --> 00:45:59,560 scene you know the conventional scene 873 00:46:06,180 --> 00:46:03,310 aliens came down the unconventional but 874 00:46:09,870 --> 00:46:06,190 equally controversial aspect is the 875 00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:09,880 secret experiment and I have to say that 876 00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:13,210 having done a lot of research into this 877 00:46:22,020 --> 00:46:17,890 I do feel that Rendlesham was a series 878 00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:22,030 of highly sophisticated experiments 879 00:46:29,430 --> 00:46:24,970 and I should stress you know I don't 880 00:46:31,470 --> 00:46:29,440 take any sort of pleasure in you know 881 00:46:35,820 --> 00:46:31,480 knocking down one of the pillars of 882 00:46:39,359 --> 00:46:35,830 ufology I do so because that's where the 883 00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:39,369 the data is taking me it really is that 884 00:46:45,589 --> 00:46:43,690 simple and I think you know I would hope 885 00:46:51,150 --> 00:46:45,599 that people would look at the book 886 00:46:53,730 --> 00:46:51,160 through you know a regular situation you 887 00:46:57,599 --> 00:46:53,740 know going to it just really don't have 888 00:46:59,880 --> 00:46:57,609 some preconceived conclusions or ideas 889 00:47:01,710 --> 00:46:59,890 and so on just see for what it is and if 890 00:47:03,810 --> 00:47:01,720 you agree with me that's great if you 891 00:47:07,020 --> 00:47:03,820 don't agree with me you know we can 892 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:07,030 debate as to why you don't and I think 893 00:47:12,089 --> 00:47:09,490 that's the way that's the responsible 894 00:47:16,020 --> 00:47:12,099 way to handle you know controversial 895 00:47:18,180 --> 00:47:16,030 things like this but let's not just you 896 00:47:24,150 --> 00:47:18,190 know uphold a story because it sounds 897 00:47:27,240 --> 00:47:24,160 cool well I I okay I'm just gonna put it 898 00:47:31,050 --> 00:47:27,250 straight out there I have always said 899 00:47:34,349 --> 00:47:31,060 that the one case out of so many that 900 00:47:37,530 --> 00:47:34,359 are out there at the top of the list the 901 00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:37,540 most important is Rendlesham and the 902 00:47:43,230 --> 00:47:40,210 reason why is the witnesses are still 903 00:47:46,050 --> 00:47:43,240 here with us this isn't Roswell this is 904 00:47:49,290 --> 00:47:46,060 something else that is now part of urban 905 00:47:51,089 --> 00:47:49,300 legend and has become myth you know it's 906 00:47:53,190 --> 00:47:51,099 it's something else out there because 907 00:47:55,290 --> 00:47:53,200 who don't have anybody first-hand that's 908 00:47:57,720 --> 00:47:55,300 not the case with Rendlesham this is a 909 00:48:00,390 --> 00:47:57,730 modern era a situation where we have 910 00:48:03,300 --> 00:48:00,400 witnesses that we can still go and talk 911 00:48:06,030 --> 00:48:03,310 to both in the government and out and so 912 00:48:07,980 --> 00:48:06,040 forth there's that aspect of it and I 913 00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:07,990 think and I've had everybody from 914 00:48:14,790 --> 00:48:10,210 Rendlesham on this program one time or 915 00:48:18,180 --> 00:48:14,800 another but the the flip side of it is 916 00:48:22,260 --> 00:48:18,190 that I think all of them except Nick 917 00:48:24,660 --> 00:48:22,270 that they honestly don't know what most 918 00:48:27,089 --> 00:48:24,670 I should say honestly don't know what 919 00:48:29,310 --> 00:48:27,099 happened in the forest that night I and 920 00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:29,320 I truly believe that and all of their 921 00:48:35,220 --> 00:48:31,930 experiences are turning out so many 922 00:48:38,069 --> 00:48:35,230 years later to be different and singular 923 00:48:40,470 --> 00:48:38,079 you went and I've read all the books 924 00:48:45,089 --> 00:48:40,480 I've interviewed everybody on Rendlesham 925 00:48:46,530 --> 00:48:45,099 and you chose to make to write I don't 926 00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:46,540 know me you can tell me the numbers 927 00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:49,810 probably the first 20 or 40 pages of the 928 00:48:56,579 --> 00:48:53,650 book a refresher course on what 929 00:48:59,790 --> 00:48:56,589 Rendlesham was and when I read that I 930 00:49:01,910 --> 00:48:59,800 actually learned a few things that I 931 00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:01,920 didn't know previously and I was also 932 00:49:07,170 --> 00:49:04,930 reminded of a few things that kind of 933 00:49:09,569 --> 00:49:07,180 get lost in the mix about Rendlesham 934 00:49:11,069 --> 00:49:09,579 over the years when you decided to do 935 00:49:13,319 --> 00:49:11,079 that at the beginning of the book which 936 00:49:15,329 --> 00:49:13,329 you didn't have to do did you find 937 00:49:18,450 --> 00:49:15,339 yourself remembering things about 938 00:49:21,290 --> 00:49:18,460 Rendlesham or learning new things on a 939 00:49:25,050 --> 00:49:21,300 case that's been out there for 40 years 940 00:49:27,569 --> 00:49:25,060 well I mean one of the things that I 941 00:49:29,460 --> 00:49:27,579 think's important to make note of when 942 00:49:33,089 --> 00:49:29,470 you're talking about Rendlesham forest 943 00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:33,099 the case or actually and the location as 944 00:49:37,410 --> 00:49:36,250 well you know people I think who through 945 00:49:38,849 --> 00:49:37,420 no fault of their own you know if you 946 00:49:40,230 --> 00:49:38,859 haven't been to the UK and you haven't 947 00:49:43,410 --> 00:49:40,240 seen Rendlesham forest you know you 948 00:49:47,130 --> 00:49:43,420 might have an image of just let's say 949 00:49:49,470 --> 00:49:47,140 you know just this creepy old forest you 950 00:49:52,740 --> 00:49:49,480 know in little old England that kind of 951 00:49:55,020 --> 00:49:52,750 thing but the reality is and this is 952 00:49:57,359 --> 00:49:55,030 where it gets important is the 953 00:50:00,900 --> 00:49:57,369 Rendlesham forest going back to the 954 00:50:04,829 --> 00:50:00,910 1930s has been an absolute hotbed for 955 00:50:06,660 --> 00:50:04,839 top-secret military experimentation now 956 00:50:10,530 --> 00:50:06,670 that's not room or anything like that 957 00:50:13,380 --> 00:50:10,540 for example in the early 1930s the 958 00:50:16,140 --> 00:50:13,390 British government set up committee 959 00:50:18,150 --> 00:50:16,150 Corbett Ezard committee and it was one 960 00:50:22,099 --> 00:50:18,160 of the first commit secret top secret 961 00:50:27,150 --> 00:50:22,109 committee set up to look into the early 962 00:50:29,750 --> 00:50:27,160 technology surrounding radar and in the 963 00:50:34,620 --> 00:50:29,760 Second World War there were rumors of 964 00:50:37,079 --> 00:50:34,630 German troops invading just off the east 965 00:50:39,540 --> 00:50:37,089 coast of England near a little village 966 00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:39,550 called shingle Street and the rumors 967 00:50:43,620 --> 00:50:41,530 that some sort of weird technology was 968 00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:43,630 used to quite literally set all these 969 00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:46,050 German soldiers on fire 970 00:50:52,820 --> 00:50:49,970 as they came on the beach there's also 971 00:50:55,130 --> 00:50:52,830 another radar program in the fifties and 972 00:50:58,010 --> 00:50:55,140 sixties top-secret called Cobra Mist 973 00:51:03,080 --> 00:50:58,020 which was like a major part of the 974 00:51:06,140 --> 00:51:03,090 defensive situation in the UK and also 975 00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:06,150 people working for Marconi will work in 976 00:51:11,720 --> 00:51:08,330 there as well now to put this in 977 00:51:15,590 --> 00:51:11,730 perspective for you the desired commitee 978 00:51:17,300 --> 00:51:15,600 radar program the cobra mist shingle 979 00:51:20,180 --> 00:51:17,310 street and this sort of mysterious 980 00:51:23,300 --> 00:51:20,190 deaths of all these German troops all of 981 00:51:25,700 --> 00:51:23,310 this all occurred less than 10 miles 982 00:51:28,070 --> 00:51:25,710 outside a Rendlesham forest 983 00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:28,080 all of those top-secret programs that I 984 00:51:33,220 --> 00:51:30,570 just mentioned so in other words when 985 00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:33,230 you look at it from that perspective 986 00:51:39,910 --> 00:51:37,610 Rendlesham forest is not just any old 987 00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:39,920 forest you know in the middle of nowhere 988 00:51:47,750 --> 00:51:44,490 it's it's quite literally around sort of 989 00:51:51,980 --> 00:51:47,760 a circular situation where just about 990 00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:51,990 everywhere has sort of been tied in with 991 00:51:56,900 --> 00:51:54,330 classified military programs and my 992 00:52:00,470 --> 00:51:56,910 argument is given that we've had 993 00:52:03,230 --> 00:52:00,480 classified radar projects from the 30s 994 00:52:04,060 --> 00:52:03,240 to the 50s we have the Cobra mist in the 995 00:52:07,850 --> 00:52:04,070 60s 996 00:52:10,850 --> 00:52:07,860 Marconi in the eighties all working in 997 00:52:13,820 --> 00:52:10,860 and out of that area my view is well if 998 00:52:16,220 --> 00:52:13,830 all those top-secret programs were 999 00:52:20,240 --> 00:52:16,230 initiated in Rendlesham forest from the 1000 00:52:22,190 --> 00:52:20,250 30s to the 70s well why should it not be 1001 00:52:27,140 --> 00:52:22,200 the case that this is just yet another 1002 00:52:28,970 --> 00:52:27,150 top-secret experiment undertaken in and 1003 00:52:31,790 --> 00:52:28,980 around Rendlesham forest and as I said 1004 00:52:34,610 --> 00:52:31,800 you know the stark reality is all of 1005 00:52:37,130 --> 00:52:34,620 those official secret programs were 1006 00:52:39,380 --> 00:52:37,140 quite literally no more than sort of 1007 00:52:41,540 --> 00:52:39,390 seven or eight miles from the forest a 1008 00:52:43,690 --> 00:52:41,550 lot of people don't realise that that 1009 00:52:47,180 --> 00:52:43,700 there's this sort of long-standing 1010 00:52:50,330 --> 00:52:47,190 history of cover-ups and advanced 1011 00:52:53,090 --> 00:52:50,340 technologies etc being used there and 1012 00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:53,100 and I think that about to get the story 1013 00:52:57,510 --> 00:52:55,530 going that is one of the most important 1014 00:53:02,250 --> 00:52:57,520 parts of the story I think 1015 00:53:03,810 --> 00:53:02,260 did you go back and for this book did 1016 00:53:08,730 --> 00:53:03,820 you go back and listen to the hall 1017 00:53:12,990 --> 00:53:08,740 tape yes and what what do you I listen 1018 00:53:14,849 --> 00:53:13,000 to the hall tape not recently I listen 1019 00:53:16,410 --> 00:53:14,859 to it when there was no such thing as 1020 00:53:20,099 --> 00:53:16,420 audio on the Internet 1021 00:53:22,890 --> 00:53:20,109 right I'm talking about 1995 and somehow 1022 00:53:24,839 --> 00:53:22,900 these audio files showed up on the net 1023 00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:24,849 and I figured out a way to play them 1024 00:53:29,099 --> 00:53:26,650 back today we take that stuff for 1025 00:53:31,410 --> 00:53:29,109 granted I realize but but back then it 1026 00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:31,420 was a rarefied moment to have that 1027 00:53:37,890 --> 00:53:34,330 happen and to have this kind of evidence 1028 00:53:39,390 --> 00:53:37,900 out there when it came to the UFO 1029 00:53:42,930 --> 00:53:39,400 situation I'm talking about you know 1030 00:53:46,170 --> 00:53:42,940 military a colonel a military base it 1031 00:53:47,849 --> 00:53:46,180 was pretty fascinating stuff did what 1032 00:53:50,070 --> 00:53:47,859 when you go back and listen to that tape 1033 00:53:52,170 --> 00:53:50,080 today knowing the historical perspective 1034 00:53:56,010 --> 00:53:52,180 that is behind it what went through your 1035 00:53:59,190 --> 00:53:56,020 mind oh well for me I think the whole 1036 00:54:01,740 --> 00:53:59,200 tape is one of the most important parts 1037 00:54:04,650 --> 00:54:01,750 of the story because some if you think 1038 00:54:08,430 --> 00:54:04,660 about it it's almost unique it may be in 1039 00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:08,440 fact it may be 100% unique that you know 1040 00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:11,050 I can't really think of another sort of 1041 00:54:18,450 --> 00:54:14,890 profound UFO case where it was actually 1042 00:54:22,310 --> 00:54:18,460 you know sort of collected so to speak 1043 00:54:26,130 --> 00:54:22,320 on audio you know we've actually got the 1044 00:54:28,140 --> 00:54:26,140 the guys talking in December 1918 you 1045 00:54:31,079 --> 00:54:28,150 can listen it now for two years like 1046 00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:31,089 that's that's almost unique you know as 1047 00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:32,890 I said I can't think of another case 1048 00:54:37,620 --> 00:54:35,410 that falls into that sort of important 1049 00:54:40,380 --> 00:54:37,630 category and one of the important things 1050 00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:40,390 I need to stress when it comes to you 1051 00:54:46,470 --> 00:54:44,170 know the guys in the woods and the tape 1052 00:54:49,349 --> 00:54:46,480 and the audio and everything they're 1053 00:54:51,180 --> 00:54:49,359 saying you know I point out in the book 1054 00:54:54,599 --> 00:54:51,190 you know I'm not saying that any other 1055 00:54:57,930 --> 00:54:54,609 guys we're sort of you know fabricating 1056 00:55:00,210 --> 00:54:57,940 or anything like that or you know was 1057 00:55:03,300 --> 00:55:00,220 saying wait was a UFO when they knew it 1058 00:55:05,910 --> 00:55:03,310 wasn't my view and as I point this out 1059 00:55:08,430 --> 00:55:05,920 in the book is that they were they were 1060 00:55:10,540 --> 00:55:08,440 essentially guinea pigs they did not 1061 00:55:14,050 --> 00:55:10,550 know what was going on 1062 00:55:17,109 --> 00:55:14,060 they were being sort of used in this 1063 00:55:20,380 --> 00:55:17,119 highly advanced holographic type 1064 00:55:23,230 --> 00:55:20,390 experiments and none of them were sort 1065 00:55:25,060 --> 00:55:23,240 of aware in the slightest of what the 1066 00:55:27,609 --> 00:55:25,070 situation that they were being plunged 1067 00:55:29,530 --> 00:55:27,619 into in other words as I said they were 1068 00:55:31,180 --> 00:55:29,540 the guinea pigs they were not part of 1069 00:55:34,060 --> 00:55:31,190 the program 1070 00:55:36,609 --> 00:55:34,070 they weren't knowingly going into this 1071 00:55:39,010 --> 00:55:36,619 situation in other words so that's 1072 00:55:43,030 --> 00:55:39,020 important to note they weren't part of 1073 00:55:47,410 --> 00:55:43,040 the operation they were the victims of 1074 00:55:49,330 --> 00:55:47,420 the operation now what about we're gonna 1075 00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:49,340 we're gonna go into this much much 1076 00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:53,090 deeper after the break but we we bring 1077 00:55:59,109 --> 00:55:55,490 up Colonel halt the deputy base 1078 00:56:03,280 --> 00:55:59,119 commander all the time but if this was a 1079 00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:03,290 government experiment wouldn't the base 1080 00:56:09,490 --> 00:56:07,130 commander be aware well the important 1081 00:56:12,450 --> 00:56:09,500 thing to note is that it's kind of a 1082 00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:12,460 weird situation because what you have 1083 00:56:20,590 --> 00:56:16,850 excuse me Colonel halt 1084 00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:20,600 Lieutenant Colonel Colonel halt was the 1085 00:56:27,180 --> 00:56:23,210 deputy base commander at Bentwaters 1086 00:56:30,609 --> 00:56:27,190 Royal Air Force Bentwaters but where the 1087 00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:30,619 the UFO activity occurred was actually 1088 00:56:35,140 --> 00:56:33,050 just outside of Royal Air Force 1089 00:56:37,510 --> 00:56:35,150 Woodbridge so four people don't 1090 00:56:39,730 --> 00:56:37,520 understand or possibly aren't sort of 1091 00:56:42,190 --> 00:56:39,740 preciate the story he basically goes 1092 00:56:43,950 --> 00:56:42,200 like this in the Second World War you 1093 00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:43,960 know when there was a possibility of 1094 00:56:51,849 --> 00:56:49,130 Hitler winning a number of UK bases were 1095 00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:51,859 handed over to US military personnel who 1096 00:56:58,300 --> 00:56:54,170 could essentially become you know sort 1097 00:57:00,670 --> 00:56:58,310 of work from the UK and a lot of you 1098 00:57:03,550 --> 00:57:00,680 know there are a number of UK military 1099 00:57:06,430 --> 00:57:03,560 bases that exist today that still have 1100 00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:06,440 you know large contingents of US 1101 00:57:12,490 --> 00:57:08,930 personnel to help you know in the event 1102 00:57:14,950 --> 00:57:12,500 that we ever go to war again and so in 1103 00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:14,960 the 1940s during the war you had Royal 1104 00:57:23,020 --> 00:57:17,770 Air Force Bentwaters in Woodbridge and 1105 00:57:23,380 --> 00:57:23,030 with large contingents of US personnel 1106 00:57:26,370 --> 00:57:23,390 and 1107 00:57:28,779 --> 00:57:26,380 continue through the 50s 60s 70s 80s 90s 1108 00:57:30,370 --> 00:57:28,789 now that they're not you know that 1109 00:57:33,390 --> 00:57:30,380 they're closed down now as for at least 1110 00:57:36,870 --> 00:57:33,400 as far as you know as as they're seen 1111 00:57:40,569 --> 00:57:36,880 but the important thing is we had 1112 00:57:45,009 --> 00:57:40,579 Colonel Holt based at Royal Air Force 1113 00:57:47,049 --> 00:57:45,019 Bentwaters but the events occurred at a 1114 00:57:50,380 --> 00:57:47,059 Royal Air Force Woodbridge 1115 00:57:52,329 --> 00:57:50,390 well actually outside of the the bases 1116 00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:52,339 themselves and inside Rendlesham forest 1117 00:57:58,240 --> 00:57:55,730 because Rendlesham forest is public land 1118 00:58:00,400 --> 00:57:58,250 anybody can walk through Rendlesham 1119 00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:00,410 forest you know it's not closed off you 1120 00:58:06,430 --> 00:58:03,170 know and open just used by the military 1121 00:58:09,910 --> 00:58:06,440 the Woodbridge and Bentwaters mean 1122 00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:09,920 obviously when they were in in use you 1123 00:58:15,910 --> 00:58:12,010 know they've got the responses and 1124 00:58:20,410 --> 00:58:15,920 security guards etc etc so in other 1125 00:58:24,730 --> 00:58:20,420 words we're in a situation where you've 1126 00:58:27,309 --> 00:58:24,740 got US personnel on originally on UK 1127 00:58:30,309 --> 00:58:27,319 bases but the events actually having 1128 00:58:32,349 --> 00:58:30,319 occurred outside of the base so you know 1129 00:58:35,380 --> 00:58:32,359 there's a lot of complexities in 1130 00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:35,390 relation to who knew what was going on 1131 00:58:40,690 --> 00:58:37,970 and who may have known you know let's 1132 00:58:42,789 --> 00:58:40,700 take our break right here Nick and we'll 1133 00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:42,799 continue when we come back after this 1134 00:58:46,900 --> 00:58:45,410 short break this is fade to black I am 1135 00:58:49,539 --> 00:58:46,910 your host immature tonight Nick Redfern 1136 00:58:51,910 --> 00:58:49,549 is here we're discussing his new book it 1137 00:58:54,700 --> 00:58:51,920 was just released the Rendlesham forest 1138 00:58:57,549 --> 00:58:54,710 UFO conspiracy a close encounter exposed 1139 00:59:00,430 --> 00:58:57,559 as a top secret government experiment 1140 00:59:02,950 --> 00:59:00,440 the links for the book you need to go 1141 00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:02,960 and get yourself one are over at Jimmy 1142 00:59:06,039 --> 00:59:04,730 Church radio.com and you just click and 1143 00:59:08,319 --> 00:59:06,049 go straight there we'll be right back 1144 00:59:11,049 --> 00:59:08,329 after this short break this is fade to 1145 00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:11,059 black now the game changer Network stay 1146 00:59:26,780 --> 00:59:22,420 [Music] 1147 00:59:28,700 --> 00:59:26,790 this is fade to black 1148 00:59:32,390 --> 00:59:28,710 with Jimmy Church on the game changer 1149 00:59:34,180 --> 00:59:32,400 radio network and K GRA the global radio 1150 00:59:37,490 --> 00:59:34,190 alliance 1151 00:59:40,820 --> 00:59:37,500 this is kera digital broadcasting 1152 00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:40,830 station Salt Lake City Utah Van Buren 1153 00:59:46,010 --> 00:59:44,370 Arkansas hello my name is Billy Carson 1154 00:59:48,050 --> 00:59:46,020 and I'm a best-selling author and the 1155 00:59:49,850 --> 00:59:48,060 founder of forbidden knowledge TV 1156 00:59:52,100 --> 00:59:49,860 together with my team we have built a 1157 00:59:53,810 --> 00:59:52,110 all new conscious preemie TV platform 1158 00:59:55,700 --> 00:59:53,820 designed with every family member in 1159 00:59:57,080 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the 1202 01:01:38,130 --> 01:01:34,130 surfer Banner at Jimmy Turks radio com 1203 01:01:43,329 --> 01:01:40,809 okay nurse let's get this man to the ER 1204 01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:43,339 stat right away doctor we see this every 1205 01:01:48,309 --> 01:01:45,890 day heart attack or angina pain due to 1206 01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:48,319 blocked and clogged arteries chelation 1207 01:01:52,839 --> 01:01:50,690 can remove obstructions or blockages 1208 01:01:54,099 --> 01:01:52,849 from arteries and help avoid painful and 1209 01:01:56,199 --> 01:01:54,109 expensive surgery 1210 01:01:58,120 --> 01:01:56,209 now there's angio prim it's a liquid 1211 01:02:00,069 --> 01:01:58,130 oral chelation product that you take 1212 01:02:02,620 --> 01:02:00,079 with juice you start to feel the results 1213 01:02:04,569 --> 01:02:02,630 fast angio primm increases blood flow 1214 01:02:06,729 --> 01:02:04,579 all over the body and that means more 1215 01:02:09,579 --> 01:02:06,739 energy and strength to take on the day 1216 01:02:11,499 --> 01:02:09,589 with less aches and pains 60 years of 1217 01:02:12,609 --> 01:02:11,509 research has gone into chelation and 1218 01:02:15,009 --> 01:02:12,619 angiogram 1219 01:02:17,229 --> 01:02:15,019 is the result a safe and easy way to 1220 01:02:21,209 --> 01:02:17,239 unblock your veins and arteries from 1221 01:02:25,660 --> 01:02:21,219 build-up that slow circulation dr. Jones 1222 01:02:29,019 --> 01:02:25,670 log on now to angio prim calm that's ang 1223 01:02:31,420 --> 01:02:29,029 io PR I am calm or to speak with a 1224 01:02:33,309 --> 01:02:31,430 trained consultant give angio prima call 1225 01:02:35,739 --> 01:02:33,319 at nine fifty four eight eight to 1226 01:02:37,870 --> 01:02:35,749 seventy two twenty one that's nine fifty 1227 01:02:47,739 --> 01:02:37,880 four eight eight to seventy two twenty 1228 01:02:49,599 --> 01:02:47,749 one this is Ray sobs here repping the 1229 01:02:52,599 --> 01:02:49,609 planet and you're listening to my good 1230 01:02:54,939 --> 01:02:52,609 friend Jimmy Church fade to black 1231 01:02:59,229 --> 01:02:54,949 on the GameChanger network and the kg 1232 01:03:01,539 --> 01:02:59,239 are a digital broadcast station this is 1233 01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:01,549 Toby Kebbell you're listening to Jimmy 1234 01:03:18,610 --> 01:03:16,510 major gray and I'm Ari Gold where the 1235 01:03:22,270 --> 01:03:18,620 honey brothers and you're listening to 1236 01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:22,280 Jimmy Church revolution this is Jimmy 1237 01:03:25,780 --> 01:03:23,810 Church of fade to black and you can 1238 01:03:28,990 --> 01:03:25,790 become an official fader not by just 1239 01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:29,000 going to our membership section at Jimmy 1240 01:03:33,850 --> 01:03:31,210 Church radio.com 1241 01:03:36,010 --> 01:03:33,860 hello this is Sarina right Kayla from 1242 01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:36,020 conscious life Expo and you're listening 1243 01:03:40,810 --> 01:03:38,570 to fade to black with Jimmy Church who 1244 01:03:45,570 --> 01:03:40,820 holds the Lucky Pony record for the best 1245 01:03:48,070 --> 01:03:45,580 astrological chart since 1963 true story 1246 01:03:49,660 --> 01:03:48,080 this is Micah Hank's of a gray lien 1247 01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:49,670 report and you're listening to Jimmy 1248 01:03:54,100 --> 01:03:52,010 church on fade to black across the globe 1249 01:03:57,300 --> 01:03:54,110 on the GameChanger radio network and the 1250 01:04:17,100 --> 01:03:57,310 one and only kgr a radio the planet 1251 01:04:20,110 --> 01:04:17,110 [Music] 1252 01:04:22,210 --> 01:04:20,120 all right welcome back fade to black 1253 01:04:25,840 --> 01:04:22,220 email signature tonight Nick Redfern is 1254 01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:25,850 here we are discussing his new book the 1255 01:04:31,510 --> 01:04:28,610 Rendlesham forest UFO conspiracy a close 1256 01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:31,520 encounter exposed as a top secret 1257 01:04:37,930 --> 01:04:34,970 government experiment now Nick let's 1258 01:04:40,870 --> 01:04:37,940 let's take this next segment to discuss 1259 01:04:43,900 --> 01:04:40,880 what may be difficult for a lot of us 1260 01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:43,910 out there including myself which is we 1261 01:04:52,390 --> 01:04:47,570 all have come to conclusions about 1262 01:04:55,960 --> 01:04:52,400 Rendlesham but but no matter what and 1263 01:04:57,670 --> 01:04:55,970 especially in the UFO circles and when I 1264 01:05:01,270 --> 01:04:57,680 say no matter what I'm talking about 1265 01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:01,280 physics religion politics whatever you 1266 01:05:06,100 --> 01:05:04,010 want to say we need to listen to 1267 01:05:08,740 --> 01:05:06,110 everything all the time never close off 1268 01:05:11,590 --> 01:05:08,750 your mind never shut down will never 1269 01:05:15,220 --> 01:05:11,600 take steps forward if that's what we do 1270 01:05:20,340 --> 01:05:15,230 but and this is the big but when it 1271 01:05:24,100 --> 01:05:20,350 comes to rendlesham and other UFO cases 1272 01:05:27,870 --> 01:05:24,110 the dogma and I will use that word that 1273 01:05:31,510 --> 01:05:27,880 has been laid out for years becomes 1274 01:05:34,630 --> 01:05:31,520 accepted reality and nobody wants to 1275 01:05:37,390 --> 01:05:34,640 move off of that for their own reasons 1276 01:05:40,090 --> 01:05:37,400 personal emotional invested time 1277 01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:40,100 whatever it is they're not going to go 1278 01:05:46,330 --> 01:05:43,850 off of that path right and that is the 1279 01:05:48,670 --> 01:05:46,340 biggest issue that confronts us today 1280 01:05:52,270 --> 01:05:48,680 and is front and center with your book 1281 01:05:56,440 --> 01:05:52,280 isn't it yeah you're right and I mean 1282 01:05:58,840 --> 01:05:56,450 you know it's it's all it's almost kind 1283 01:06:01,000 --> 01:05:58,850 of like on par with you know a kid finds 1284 01:06:02,860 --> 01:06:01,010 out there was nothing wasn't a real 1285 01:06:06,970 --> 01:06:02,870 Santa Claus you know that kind of thing 1286 01:06:10,170 --> 01:06:06,980 and it's a situation where the bigger 1287 01:06:12,940 --> 01:06:10,180 the case the far more it becomes 1288 01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:12,950 accepted and I think one of the main 1289 01:06:17,770 --> 01:06:15,290 reasons why it's becomes accepted is 1290 01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:17,780 because it vindicates in the minds of 1291 01:06:23,020 --> 01:06:20,930 many the research they've been doing you 1292 01:06:26,080 --> 01:06:23,030 know if it's if you've got some you know 1293 01:06:27,670 --> 01:06:26,090 old guy and you followed use 85 years 1294 01:06:29,570 --> 01:06:27,680 old you know he's been doing research 1295 01:06:33,050 --> 01:06:29,580 for 60 years 1296 01:06:36,410 --> 01:06:33,060 it's hard for somebody like that to give 1297 01:06:40,430 --> 01:06:36,420 up on the one case that they devoted 1298 01:06:42,230 --> 01:06:40,440 their lives to you know and so but 1299 01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:42,240 you're right you know when you have a 1300 01:06:47,660 --> 01:06:45,570 story or an event which has been 1301 01:06:52,190 --> 01:06:47,670 researched and the subject of numerous 1302 01:06:55,100 --> 01:06:52,200 books and just about everybody is saying 1303 01:06:57,800 --> 01:06:55,110 it was extraterrestrial it is very 1304 01:07:02,960 --> 01:06:57,810 difficult for a lot of people to walk 1305 01:07:06,170 --> 01:07:02,970 away and accept a new theory which 1306 01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:06,180 actually doesn't support the UFO angle 1307 01:07:11,540 --> 01:07:09,330 and you know there's no doubt from the 1308 01:07:14,870 --> 01:07:11,550 you know the debates I've already had 1309 01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:14,880 about the book but it's quite clear from 1310 01:07:20,510 --> 01:07:16,770 you know some of the debates we've had 1311 01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:20,520 that the the issues that are being 1312 01:07:28,520 --> 01:07:24,450 brought up so against me are emotional 1313 01:07:31,430 --> 01:07:28,530 issues rather than you know sort of data 1314 01:07:34,370 --> 01:07:31,440 based you know it's nice full of crap 1315 01:07:36,350 --> 01:07:34,380 that kind of thing you know he likes 1316 01:07:40,060 --> 01:07:36,360 punk music and all this bit you know 1317 01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:40,070 it's you know I say time and time again 1318 01:07:48,830 --> 01:07:44,490 when it becomes defensive and it becomes 1319 01:07:53,690 --> 01:07:48,840 an attack on the author rather than have 1320 01:07:58,220 --> 01:07:53,700 a sort of face-to-face debate of the 1321 01:08:01,400 --> 01:07:58,230 facts and now there have been see this 1322 01:08:03,290 --> 01:08:01,410 is the thing and most people in ufology 1323 01:08:06,230 --> 01:08:03,300 and I'm looking at the comments coming 1324 01:08:07,190 --> 01:08:06,240 in on Twitter right now - as well about 1325 01:08:09,080 --> 01:08:07,200 this 1326 01:08:10,990 --> 01:08:09,090 and and I think something strange 1327 01:08:13,940 --> 01:08:11,000 happened out there that's my own 1328 01:08:17,180 --> 01:08:13,950 conclusion I've researched it enough for 1329 01:08:19,789 --> 01:08:17,190 me - but I listened to everything and 1330 01:08:22,490 --> 01:08:19,799 you bring up not only some things that 1331 01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:22,500 need to be considered here but what you 1332 01:08:29,269 --> 01:08:25,770 have researched and brought out in this 1333 01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:29,279 book has been discussed about Rendlesham 1334 01:08:36,410 --> 01:08:32,130 for a long time it's just that nobody 1335 01:08:40,729 --> 01:08:36,420 wanted to touch it and there was also 1336 01:08:42,860 --> 01:08:40,739 a pretty solid story that started to go 1337 01:08:45,260 --> 01:08:42,870 around that it was all just a practical 1338 01:08:47,180 --> 01:08:45,270 joke right the RAF were playing a 1339 01:08:49,340 --> 01:08:47,190 practical joke on the United States Air 1340 01:08:51,650 --> 01:08:49,350 Force things are going back and forth 1341 01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:51,660 between the two bases and and things 1342 01:08:56,809 --> 01:08:54,690 were just happening so the Brits just 1343 01:09:00,260 --> 01:08:56,819 had to pull one over you know on the 1344 01:09:03,260 --> 01:09:00,270 Yanks kind of thing even that story got 1345 01:09:06,499 --> 01:09:03,270 a little bit of traction and it's so 1346 01:09:10,519 --> 01:09:06,509 it's not that we're breaking new ground 1347 01:09:12,709 --> 01:09:10,529 here it's that nobody wants to you know 1348 01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:12,719 shift off of what they've already 1349 01:09:19,959 --> 01:09:15,690 accepted it when did you start to hear 1350 01:09:23,780 --> 01:09:19,969 these other versions of Rendlesham oh 1351 01:09:25,910 --> 01:09:23,790 well that's an easy question to answer 1352 01:09:29,599 --> 01:09:25,920 out the first book that came out on 1353 01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:29,609 Rendlesham which was written by Brenda 1354 01:09:33,950 --> 01:09:31,770 Butler dirt street and Jenny Randall's 1355 01:09:37,579 --> 01:09:33,960 he was called sky crash and that came 1356 01:09:40,160 --> 01:09:37,589 out in 1984 and even then you know there 1357 01:09:45,610 --> 01:09:40,170 were rumors of you know things like 1358 01:09:48,829 --> 01:09:45,620 early drones and early stealth craft and 1359 01:09:50,900 --> 01:09:48,839 you know sort of us maybe like a Russian 1360 01:09:51,380 --> 01:09:50,910 satellite coming down and that kind of 1361 01:09:53,510 --> 01:09:51,390 thing 1362 01:09:56,090 --> 01:09:53,520 so those kind of the theories the 1363 01:09:59,240 --> 01:09:56,100 alternative theories have been around 1364 01:10:01,010 --> 01:09:59,250 you know for a long time but I can tell 1365 01:10:02,930 --> 01:10:01,020 you you know having been on the UFO 1366 01:10:05,630 --> 01:10:02,940 scene for a long time I can tell you one 1367 01:10:08,930 --> 01:10:05,640 of the reasons why some people may 1368 01:10:10,729 --> 01:10:08,940 actually privately you know agree with 1369 01:10:13,700 --> 01:10:10,739 some of what I say but some of the 1370 01:10:14,630 --> 01:10:13,710 people in ufology well-known figures on 1371 01:10:18,770 --> 01:10:14,640 the lecture circuit 1372 01:10:21,140 --> 01:10:18,780 will not rock the boat for fear of not 1373 01:10:23,209 --> 01:10:21,150 getting being booked on the next lecture 1374 01:10:26,800 --> 01:10:23,219 circuit I see that now and again you 1375 01:10:30,050 --> 01:10:26,810 know people who I know do not support 1376 01:10:33,590 --> 01:10:30,060 certain stories but they go fawning up 1377 01:10:36,740 --> 01:10:33,600 to you know the bigwigs in ufology hope 1378 01:10:37,459 --> 01:10:36,750 you know and to basically kissing their 1379 01:10:40,419 --> 01:10:37,469 shoes 1380 01:10:43,070 --> 01:10:40,429 kissing god knows what to basically 1381 01:10:45,439 --> 01:10:43,080 ensure that you know they'll get three 1382 01:10:47,510 --> 01:10:45,449 or four more new conferences last year 1383 01:10:48,120 --> 01:10:47,520 and to me that's kind of pathetic really 1384 01:10:50,580 --> 01:10:48,130 you know 1385 01:10:51,540 --> 01:10:50,590 if you believe something if you can go 1386 01:10:55,500 --> 01:10:51,550 to conclusion 1387 01:10:57,960 --> 01:10:55,510 well Kelly tie CDs don't just don't just 1388 01:10:59,460 --> 01:10:57,970 kiss ass you know and say you you agree 1389 01:11:02,820 --> 01:10:59,470 with this or you agree with that I mean 1390 01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:02,830 that's that's you know just like I said 1391 01:11:11,310 --> 01:11:04,890 pathetic that's the best word for it 1392 01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:11,320 wouldn't wouldn't the story the reality 1393 01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:15,970 if it's true wouldn't wouldn't that 1394 01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:18,970 reality of it being a top secret 1395 01:11:25,950 --> 01:11:22,570 government experiment be a bigger story 1396 01:11:30,380 --> 01:11:25,960 and more important than if it was aliens 1397 01:11:33,660 --> 01:11:30,390 is it isn't that isn't that significant 1398 01:11:36,150 --> 01:11:33,670 well yeah I mean it's it would be 1399 01:11:38,820 --> 01:11:36,160 significant if it's approved and and of 1400 01:11:40,050 --> 01:11:38,830 course you know even I have to admit you 1401 01:11:43,970 --> 01:11:40,060 know there's a big difference between 1402 01:11:46,830 --> 01:11:43,980 having a scenario based upon the data 1403 01:11:50,040 --> 01:11:46,840 that I found and the interviews I've 1404 01:11:53,400 --> 01:11:50,050 done for the book you know that is not 1405 01:11:56,520 --> 01:11:53,410 proof that data that's information but 1406 01:11:58,620 --> 01:11:56,530 if we have proof solid proof that aliens 1407 01:12:01,860 --> 01:11:58,630 came down at Rendlesham or solid proof 1408 01:12:05,610 --> 01:12:01,870 that it was a military experiment it 1409 01:12:08,010 --> 01:12:05,620 would massively affect ufology because 1410 01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:08,020 number one it's one of the biggest cases 1411 01:12:14,010 --> 01:12:09,850 you know it's rough it's up there we 1412 01:12:17,130 --> 01:12:14,020 like Roswell and cash Landrum and the 1413 01:12:19,890 --> 01:12:17,140 Phoenix lights all the big cases so 1414 01:12:22,980 --> 01:12:19,900 people would then would be thinking or 1415 01:12:24,900 --> 01:12:22,990 concluding well if this big case has 1416 01:12:27,060 --> 01:12:24,910 collapsed well how many of the others 1417 01:12:30,510 --> 01:12:27,070 weren't UFO events so you have this 1418 01:12:32,910 --> 01:12:30,520 spiraling aspect that could happen the 1419 01:12:37,020 --> 01:12:32,920 other aspect that could actually happen 1420 01:12:40,050 --> 01:12:37,030 is the issue of well have we been sort 1421 01:12:44,430 --> 01:12:40,060 of deceived as are so many of these UFO 1422 01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:44,440 events just sort of tactical experiments 1423 01:12:49,710 --> 01:12:47,650 hidden under a UFO banner and then you 1424 01:12:52,050 --> 01:12:49,720 begin to think well how long has this 1425 01:12:56,300 --> 01:12:52,060 been going on for easy just Rendlesham 1426 01:12:59,850 --> 01:12:56,310 is it multiple cases you know so I think 1427 01:13:01,589 --> 01:12:59,860 whatever the answer is it's going to be 1428 01:13:03,870 --> 01:13:01,599 it's going to cause big 1429 01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:03,880 controversies if we can get the hard 1430 01:13:09,629 --> 01:13:06,010 proof and are you by proof I mean 1431 01:13:12,720 --> 01:13:09,639 literal proof what I would also say is 1432 01:13:15,359 --> 01:13:12,730 that you're right you know when you said 1433 01:13:18,300 --> 01:13:15,369 would it be more controversial than 1434 01:13:20,819 --> 01:13:18,310 aliens I would probably say it would be 1435 01:13:22,410 --> 01:13:20,829 on an equal par I mean who's proved that 1436 01:13:24,660 --> 01:13:22,420 aliens did come down in Rendlesham 1437 01:13:27,390 --> 01:13:24,670 forest 40 years ago that would be 1438 01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:27,400 amazing and even I would be would be 1439 01:13:31,620 --> 01:13:29,770 really you know really pleased if it was 1440 01:13:35,580 --> 01:13:31,630 because it would vindicate everything 1441 01:13:38,370 --> 01:13:35,590 that we're doing but what I would say is 1442 01:13:42,240 --> 01:13:38,380 you know the idea of a top-secret 1443 01:13:46,560 --> 01:13:42,250 experiment using sophisticated Holograms 1444 01:13:48,870 --> 01:13:46,570 and in a situation where the the men out 1445 01:13:51,030 --> 01:13:48,880 there really believed they were seeing 1446 01:13:53,129 --> 01:13:51,040 something extraterrestrial when it was 1447 01:13:57,060 --> 01:13:53,139 actually you know sort of projected 1448 01:13:59,700 --> 01:13:57,070 phenomena in many respects that would be 1449 01:14:02,990 --> 01:13:59,710 more controversial and the reason why be 1450 01:14:06,750 --> 01:14:03,000 more controversial would be because of 1451 01:14:10,939 --> 01:14:06,760 success of the experiment worth he was 1452 01:14:13,890 --> 01:14:10,949 so successful you know that it actually 1453 01:14:15,810 --> 01:14:13,900 put so many people military personnel in 1454 01:14:17,370 --> 01:14:15,820 a situation where they really believed 1455 01:14:20,459 --> 01:14:17,380 they were seeing something 1456 01:14:23,430 --> 01:14:20,469 extraterrestrial that in itself would be 1457 01:14:27,620 --> 01:14:23,440 a powerful tool on the battlefield you 1458 01:14:31,169 --> 01:14:27,630 know you go into war and you have this 1459 01:14:33,330 --> 01:14:31,179 technology which you know the enemy sees 1460 01:14:36,300 --> 01:14:33,340 something coming towards them which may 1461 01:14:40,459 --> 01:14:36,310 not be the real deal and it's you know 1462 01:14:44,339 --> 01:14:40,469 potentially stuns them you know and 1463 01:14:46,709 --> 01:14:44,349 chaos breaks out and I think that was as 1464 01:14:49,350 --> 01:14:46,719 in terms of the interviews I did with 1465 01:14:52,729 --> 01:14:49,360 the people that was the primary goal was 1466 01:14:56,609 --> 01:14:52,739 to see how the human mind could be 1467 01:15:00,540 --> 01:14:56,619 manipulated and essentially if you can 1468 01:15:02,490 --> 01:15:00,550 make people see aliens and UFOs you sure 1469 01:15:05,100 --> 01:15:02,500 as hell can get them to see anything you 1470 01:15:07,350 --> 01:15:05,110 know that kind of thing and then it 1471 01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:07,360 would be you know that the military 1472 01:15:11,040 --> 01:15:10,570 advantage of creating that kind of 1473 01:15:12,420 --> 01:15:11,050 imagery 1474 01:15:16,380 --> 01:15:12,430 now who did you 1475 01:15:18,930 --> 01:15:16,390 interview for the book well one of the 1476 01:15:21,930 --> 01:15:18,940 most there's eleven interviews in the 1477 01:15:24,960 --> 01:15:21,940 book I would say without doubt the the 1478 01:15:28,890 --> 01:15:24,970 most important person I interviewed was 1479 01:15:31,680 --> 01:15:28,900 a guy named Ray Boetsch a now ray he's 1480 01:15:34,890 --> 01:15:31,690 actually still active in the UFO scene 1481 01:15:37,530 --> 01:15:34,900 today but back in the mid 1980s he was 1482 01:15:43,680 --> 01:15:37,540 the state director for MUFON the mutual 1483 01:15:46,740 --> 01:15:43,690 UFO network in Nebraska and Ray spent a 1484 01:15:49,080 --> 01:15:46,750 lot of time looking into Rendlesham to 1485 01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:49,090 the extent that he actually approached 1486 01:15:57,290 --> 01:15:53,850 his senator senator xyn and Jim Exim and 1487 01:16:01,140 --> 01:15:57,300 they had a lot of correspondence and 1488 01:16:04,830 --> 01:16:01,150 it's quite clear from the correspondence 1489 01:16:07,410 --> 01:16:04,840 that Ray had with Senator X and that he 1490 01:16:10,970 --> 01:16:07,420 went a long way and up the chain of 1491 01:16:13,920 --> 01:16:10,980 command in terms of the military and 1492 01:16:17,340 --> 01:16:13,930 rain found himself in this very strange 1493 01:16:20,010 --> 01:16:17,350 weird situation where it seemed that 1494 01:16:23,820 --> 01:16:20,020 somebody was watching him and there was 1495 01:16:28,230 --> 01:16:23,830 concerns as to what he'd found and the 1496 01:16:32,460 --> 01:16:28,240 very mind this was 1985 and he really 1497 01:16:36,440 --> 01:16:32,470 dug deeply into the whole Rendlesham 1498 01:16:40,110 --> 01:16:36,450 thing pursued it with Senator exome and 1499 01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:40,120 Ray actually quite generously allowed me 1500 01:16:46,530 --> 01:16:42,850 to use some of that correspondence in 1501 01:16:49,530 --> 01:16:46,540 the book and but in 1991 there was 1502 01:16:52,950 --> 01:16:49,540 another development with Ray and he was 1503 01:16:56,310 --> 01:16:52,960 approached by two of the guys who 1504 01:17:00,090 --> 01:16:56,320 actually worked on the hologram program 1505 01:17:02,160 --> 01:17:00,100 and and bear in mind as well that you 1506 01:17:06,290 --> 01:17:02,170 know when you talk about credibility of 1507 01:17:07,680 --> 01:17:06,300 people Ray's not just you know a 1508 01:17:11,970 --> 01:17:07,690 performer 1509 01:17:14,370 --> 01:17:11,980 MUFON director he's actually also a 1510 01:17:18,510 --> 01:17:14,380 working priest he's a he's an Anglican 1511 01:17:20,970 --> 01:17:18,520 priest and and he met with two of the 1512 01:17:24,240 --> 01:17:20,980 men working on the program who told him 1513 01:17:25,540 --> 01:17:24,250 that yes Rendlesham did take place it 1514 01:17:28,870 --> 01:17:25,550 was an estate 1515 01:17:31,480 --> 01:17:28,880 in event but it wasn't a UFO event it 1516 01:17:34,390 --> 01:17:31,490 was as I said this holographic event and 1517 01:17:37,450 --> 01:17:34,400 they basically told him that yes it was 1518 01:17:41,530 --> 01:17:37,460 designed to see how the human mind could 1519 01:17:44,980 --> 01:17:41,540 be affected and how people's mindsets 1520 01:17:47,830 --> 01:17:44,990 could be just sort of blown away you 1521 01:17:51,040 --> 01:17:47,840 know into a completely new scenario and 1522 01:17:53,290 --> 01:17:51,050 he told me you know the exact hotel 1523 01:17:55,270 --> 01:17:53,300 where they had the meeting and how they 1524 01:17:57,670 --> 01:17:55,280 warned him you know if you get too close 1525 01:17:59,710 --> 01:17:57,680 to this kind of stuff you're gonna mean 1526 01:18:01,210 --> 01:17:59,720 he'd be in a world of trouble that was 1527 01:18:05,530 --> 01:18:01,220 actually the words they used the world 1528 01:18:08,010 --> 01:18:05,540 of trouble and so ray without doubt was 1529 01:18:10,960 --> 01:18:08,020 one of the most important people I 1530 01:18:14,050 --> 01:18:10,970 interviewed because you know he was able 1531 01:18:17,620 --> 01:18:14,060 to actually penetrate to a degree at 1532 01:18:21,640 --> 01:18:17,630 least the the secrecy and you know to 1533 01:18:25,660 --> 01:18:21,650 the extent where you know part of the 1534 01:18:28,180 --> 01:18:25,670 story at least came out and there's very 1535 01:18:30,370 --> 01:18:28,190 few people who actually you know been 1536 01:18:35,340 --> 01:18:30,380 able to penetrate that part that part of 1537 01:18:40,690 --> 01:18:35,350 the story now what how do you overcome 1538 01:18:44,170 --> 01:18:40,700 the physical aspects of Rendlesham as 1539 01:18:45,610 --> 01:18:44,180 opposed to holograms which are things 1540 01:18:51,160 --> 01:18:45,620 that are not physical and I'm referring 1541 01:18:56,740 --> 01:18:51,170 to directly with you know John Burroughs 1542 01:18:58,690 --> 01:18:56,750 in Penniston when they were on just 1543 01:19:01,030 --> 01:18:58,700 above the craft on that little uh they 1544 01:19:02,710 --> 01:19:01,040 got a little Hill there there on little 1545 01:19:05,890 --> 01:19:02,720 rise depression and they're both laying 1546 01:19:07,330 --> 01:19:05,900 down and and John said on this program 1547 01:19:10,180 --> 01:19:07,340 anytime but I've talked to him about 1548 01:19:13,300 --> 01:19:10,190 this you know a person person-to-person 1549 01:19:16,540 --> 01:19:13,310 to where he'd looked up over the ridge 1550 01:19:18,250 --> 01:19:16,550 and and saw the physical craft sitting 1551 01:19:21,010 --> 01:19:18,260 there and he couldn't believe what he 1552 01:19:22,270 --> 01:19:21,020 was seeing now there's the other reports 1553 01:19:25,900 --> 01:19:22,280 of 1554 01:19:29,320 --> 01:19:25,910 Jim Penniston actually physically 1555 01:19:33,100 --> 01:19:29,330 touching the craft well how do we 1556 01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:33,110 overcome that if this a hologram well 1557 01:19:37,060 --> 01:19:35,810 that's a good point and you know I sort 1558 01:19:39,790 --> 01:19:37,070 of talked about that in the book I 1559 01:19:42,640 --> 01:19:39,800 actually point out or describe I should 1560 01:19:45,490 --> 01:19:42,650 say Penniston and Burroughs in the book 1561 01:19:50,410 --> 01:19:45,500 as being two of the most important 1562 01:19:51,790 --> 01:19:50,420 figures within the whole story and so 1563 01:19:54,430 --> 01:19:51,800 you know that's that's an important part 1564 01:19:56,170 --> 01:19:54,440 of the story you know I don't dismiss 1565 01:19:59,110 --> 01:19:56,180 them I actually point them out as being 1566 01:20:01,770 --> 01:19:59,120 you know two of the the most important 1567 01:20:05,500 --> 01:20:01,780 people in everything in relation to 1568 01:20:08,189 --> 01:20:05,510 Rendlesham really but the the story that 1569 01:20:12,630 --> 01:20:08,199 was given to me was that it wasn't just 1570 01:20:15,490 --> 01:20:12,640 the hallucinogenic side excuse me the 1571 01:20:18,820 --> 01:20:15,500 holographic side of this there was also 1572 01:20:21,729 --> 01:20:18,830 an hallucinogenic side up to it as well 1573 01:20:24,070 --> 01:20:21,739 now this sort of gets into really 1574 01:20:27,760 --> 01:20:24,080 controversial areas and we still have to 1575 01:20:30,670 --> 01:20:27,770 go back a little bit in time to 1964 and 1576 01:20:33,430 --> 01:20:30,680 a place in the South of South West of 1577 01:20:37,959 --> 01:20:33,440 England called port and down P ort are 1578 01:20:39,459 --> 01:20:37,969 important down Porton Down is where the 1579 01:20:43,660 --> 01:20:39,469 British government does a lot of his 1580 01:20:46,150 --> 01:20:43,670 research into things like chemical 1581 01:20:48,340 --> 01:20:46,160 warfare and particularly in the 50s 60s 1582 01:20:52,979 --> 01:20:48,350 and 70s they did a huge amount of 1583 01:20:56,260 --> 01:20:52,989 research into things like LSD and in 1584 01:20:58,950 --> 01:20:56,270 1964 and this isn't sort of hearsay you 1585 01:21:04,209 --> 01:20:58,960 can actually find it on the Internet 1586 01:21:09,520 --> 01:21:04,219 back in 1964 a team of scientists from 1587 01:21:12,700 --> 01:21:09,530 Porton Down took group of UK soldiers 1588 01:21:15,459 --> 01:21:12,710 into an area of woods and essentially 1589 01:21:19,300 --> 01:21:15,469 dosed them with LSD and to see what the 1590 01:21:21,400 --> 01:21:19,310 effects were and the effects were exact 1591 01:21:23,320 --> 01:21:21,410 exactly as you would expect them to be 1592 01:21:25,630 --> 01:21:23,330 you know people start to see how 1593 01:21:29,590 --> 01:21:25,640 hallucinate it and saw things that 1594 01:21:35,049 --> 01:21:29,600 weren't there and the if you leave you 1595 01:21:37,450 --> 01:21:35,059 if you googled 1964 port and down LSD 1596 01:21:39,339 --> 01:21:37,460 you'll actually see the original film 1597 01:21:42,760 --> 01:21:39,349 footage the black and white film footage 1598 01:21:45,069 --> 01:21:42,770 taken by the British Army itself and you 1599 01:21:48,279 --> 01:21:45,079 see these guys wandering around the 1600 01:21:52,620 --> 01:21:48,289 woods basically in a state of 1601 01:21:57,250 --> 01:21:52,630 hallucinogenic mania so to speak and 1602 01:21:58,810 --> 01:21:57,260 that so that was 64 now people have sort 1603 01:22:02,080 --> 01:21:58,820 of suggested well could that have been 1604 01:22:04,209 --> 01:22:02,090 what happened in 1980 something very 1605 01:22:06,490 --> 01:22:04,219 similar well one of the people who 1606 01:22:09,910 --> 01:22:06,500 looked into this was Lord Hill Norton 1607 01:22:13,750 --> 01:22:09,920 Lord Hill Norton was one of the highest 1608 01:22:17,859 --> 01:22:13,760 ranking military personnel in the UK in 1609 01:22:22,089 --> 01:22:17,869 the 1970s and he had a deep interest in 1610 01:22:24,580 --> 01:22:22,099 Rendlesham forest the case and he the 1611 01:22:28,299 --> 01:22:24,590 more he looked into it he found out that 1612 01:22:30,970 --> 01:22:28,309 on the night of the the first incident 1613 01:22:33,220 --> 01:22:30,980 in Rendlesham forest that a team had 1614 01:22:36,700 --> 01:22:33,230 been secretly brought up to Rendlesham 1615 01:22:40,720 --> 01:22:36,710 forest from Porton Down all dressed in 1616 01:22:44,410 --> 01:22:40,730 hazmat outfits and the theory that he 1617 01:22:46,680 --> 01:22:44,420 was pursuing was that hallucinogenics 1618 01:22:49,390 --> 01:22:46,690 had been sort of aerosol based 1619 01:22:51,959 --> 01:22:49,400 hallucinogenics had been released 1620 01:22:55,450 --> 01:22:51,969 like low-grade hallucinogenics had been 1621 01:22:59,439 --> 01:22:55,460 released into the woods at the same time 1622 01:23:03,330 --> 01:22:59,449 that the experiment was going on so you 1623 01:23:07,350 --> 01:23:03,340 had not just the guys exposed to the 1624 01:23:11,020 --> 01:23:07,360 Holograms but also placed in a 1625 01:23:13,419 --> 01:23:11,030 hallucinogenic state as well courtesy 1626 01:23:16,000 --> 01:23:13,429 important down now as I said you know 1627 01:23:18,279 --> 01:23:16,010 the the fort built for teachers I said 1628 01:23:20,529 --> 01:23:18,289 you can see it on YouTube and it's sort 1629 01:23:22,569 --> 01:23:20,539 of extremely graphic you know these guys 1630 01:23:25,000 --> 01:23:22,579 just not knowing what they're doing is 1631 01:23:27,510 --> 01:23:25,010 wandering around the woods and as I said 1632 01:23:33,040 --> 01:23:27,520 whole Hill Norton was one of the most 1633 01:23:34,510 --> 01:23:33,050 high-ranking powerful military personnel 1634 01:23:38,350 --> 01:23:34,520 you know within the wind of British 1635 01:23:40,419 --> 01:23:38,360 military in that period and of the 1970s 1636 01:23:44,830 --> 01:23:40,429 and 80s and and you know someone like 1637 01:23:47,640 --> 01:23:44,840 him was the perfect person to to learn 1638 01:23:50,950 --> 01:23:47,650 about this port down connection 1639 01:23:54,070 --> 01:23:50,960 with Rendlesham so to get back to the 1640 01:23:56,920 --> 01:23:54,080 point you know I think as I said I 1641 01:23:59,470 --> 01:23:56,930 believe all the guys you know they're 1642 01:24:03,700 --> 01:23:59,480 all credible and I believe that what 1643 01:24:06,460 --> 01:24:03,710 they saw is what they saw you know as 1644 01:24:09,160 --> 01:24:06,470 they saw it so to speak you know but 1645 01:24:12,100 --> 01:24:09,170 what they saw may not actual or they 1646 01:24:17,370 --> 01:24:12,110 perceived may not have been exactly as 1647 01:24:20,680 --> 01:24:17,380 it was due to that LSD hallucinogenic 1648 01:24:23,350 --> 01:24:20,690 important down connection so in other 1649 01:24:26,400 --> 01:24:23,360 words you know trying to figure out what 1650 01:24:28,960 --> 01:24:26,410 people saw if low gray low-grade 1651 01:24:30,400 --> 01:24:28,970 hallucinogenics were released into the 1652 01:24:34,330 --> 01:24:30,410 woods then it becomes extremely 1653 01:24:38,500 --> 01:24:34,340 difficult to understand what was 1654 01:24:41,290 --> 01:24:38,510 actually seen now what about you know 1655 01:24:42,790 --> 01:24:41,300 everybody that was directly involved you 1656 01:24:46,300 --> 01:24:42,800 know like halt and Penniston and 1657 01:24:49,720 --> 01:24:46,310 Burroughs I know that Jim said that 1658 01:24:51,400 --> 01:24:49,730 there may have been something introduced 1659 01:24:53,350 --> 01:24:51,410 and maybe somebody else did during the 1660 01:24:56,530 --> 01:24:53,360 interrogations I'd have to go back and 1661 01:24:58,330 --> 01:24:56,540 remember all that but halt said that 1662 01:25:00,610 --> 01:24:58,340 that never happened 1663 01:25:03,790 --> 01:25:00,620 others are not so sure but that being 1664 01:25:06,460 --> 01:25:03,800 the case has anybody nobody has said 1665 01:25:10,150 --> 01:25:06,470 anything to me about them feeling high 1666 01:25:13,360 --> 01:25:10,160 or maybe something else was going on 1667 01:25:16,930 --> 01:25:13,370 there other than a physical incident has 1668 01:25:19,740 --> 01:25:16,940 has Penniston or halt or or borough said 1669 01:25:23,350 --> 01:25:19,750 anything about the possibility of a 1670 01:25:25,810 --> 01:25:23,360 hallucinogen well I mean if you actually 1671 01:25:28,270 --> 01:25:25,820 look at the story you know drugs and 1672 01:25:31,480 --> 01:25:28,280 things like this do pop up in the story 1673 01:25:35,220 --> 01:25:31,490 now and again for example for years I 1674 01:25:38,410 --> 01:25:35,230 mean Charles Holt a stated that he felt 1675 01:25:42,250 --> 01:25:38,420 that Larry warrant had been quote 1676 01:25:43,930 --> 01:25:42,260 meddled with and that was that was his 1677 01:25:46,090 --> 01:25:43,940 actual word you know he said he felt 1678 01:25:49,840 --> 01:25:46,100 that Larry Warren have been meddled in 1679 01:25:54,520 --> 01:25:49,850 some fashion he's mine had been meddled 1680 01:25:57,340 --> 01:25:54,530 with now Jim Penniston for example he 1681 01:25:59,280 --> 01:25:57,350 was put under sodium pentathol when he 1682 01:26:03,620 --> 01:25:59,290 was interviewed 1683 01:26:08,430 --> 01:26:03,630 you know so you do have these sort of 1684 01:26:11,970 --> 01:26:08,440 snippets if you like of drugs you know 1685 01:26:13,620 --> 01:26:11,980 that potentially you know as well not 1686 01:26:17,580 --> 01:26:13,630 potentially if it does have an effect on 1687 01:26:19,109 --> 01:26:17,590 the human mind so you know you can look 1688 01:26:22,649 --> 01:26:19,119 at it from that perspective when 1689 01:26:24,510 --> 01:26:22,659 particularly when you tie it in with the 1690 01:26:26,669 --> 01:26:24,520 whole angle of Port and down you know 1691 01:26:29,280 --> 01:26:26,679 which was as I said in the fifties and 1692 01:26:33,180 --> 01:26:29,290 sixties with the action absolute hub in 1693 01:26:36,240 --> 01:26:33,190 the UK government for research into LSD 1694 01:26:39,209 --> 01:26:36,250 and not just LSD but other mind-altering 1695 01:26:42,180 --> 01:26:39,219 technologies that could be used on the 1696 01:26:45,570 --> 01:26:42,190 battlefield to disable the enemy you 1697 01:26:48,200 --> 01:26:45,580 know so there's a lot of weird snippets 1698 01:26:51,270 --> 01:26:48,210 and threads like this you know sort of 1699 01:26:53,910 --> 01:26:51,280 offshoots of the main story like as I 1700 01:26:56,070 --> 01:26:53,920 said like port and down scientist in has 1701 01:26:58,470 --> 01:26:56,080 much going in and out the woods I mean 1702 01:27:02,220 --> 01:26:58,480 that was one that as I said that he'll 1703 01:27:04,950 --> 01:27:02,230 Norton was absolutely sort of chasing 1704 01:27:06,209 --> 01:27:04,960 down before he died now let's uh we need 1705 01:27:08,180 --> 01:27:06,219 to take a break right here and I just 1706 01:27:10,680 --> 01:27:08,190 noticed that a Jim Penniston is uh 1707 01:27:12,629 --> 01:27:10,690 jumping in here on Twitter I don't know 1708 01:27:15,359 --> 01:27:12,639 if he's listening to the show we're just 1709 01:27:18,859 --> 01:27:15,369 responding to comments but yeah I never 1710 01:27:21,240 --> 01:27:18,869 know who is listening to this show next 1711 01:27:22,890 --> 01:27:21,250 let's take our break right here this is 1712 01:27:25,260 --> 01:27:22,900 fade to black our guest tonight Nick 1713 01:27:27,780 --> 01:27:25,270 Redfern we are discussing his 1714 01:27:31,830 --> 01:27:27,790 sensational new book it is called the 1715 01:27:34,050 --> 01:27:31,840 Rendlesham forest UFO conspiracy and let 1716 01:27:37,229 --> 01:27:34,060 me make sure I'm doing this right I am a 1717 01:27:39,510 --> 01:27:37,239 close encounter exposed as a top secret 1718 01:27:41,399 --> 01:27:39,520 government experiment this is paid to 1719 01:27:41,790 --> 01:27:41,409 Blackmore with Nick after this short 1720 01:27:47,720 --> 01:27:41,800 break 1721 01:28:03,410 --> 01:27:53,540 [Music] 1722 01:28:10,620 --> 01:28:06,590 way out here we listen to Jimmy Church 1723 01:28:12,930 --> 01:28:10,630 you're listening to fade to black always 1724 01:28:15,450 --> 01:28:12,940 on the edge of the hottest alternative 1725 01:28:33,240 --> 01:28:15,460 talk chilly church with fade to black 1726 01:28:35,970 --> 01:28:33,250 stay GRA radio.com do you want to be an 1727 01:28:37,950 --> 01:28:35,980 official fade or not of course you do 1728 01:28:40,530 --> 01:28:37,960 this is Jimmy Church of fade to black 1729 01:28:43,130 --> 01:28:40,540 just go to our membership section at 1730 01:28:44,360 --> 01:28:43,140 Jimmy Church radio.com 1731 01:28:47,150 --> 01:28:44,370 [Music] 1732 01:28:49,950 --> 01:28:47,160 introducing the new surfer music app 1733 01:28:53,490 --> 01:28:49,960 listen fade or not you know I love my 1734 01:28:56,430 --> 01:28:53,500 music this is my go-to for all things 1735 01:28:58,710 --> 01:28:56,440 notes the surfer app is a brand new 1736 01:29:00,900 --> 01:28:58,720 concept of music listening surfer is 1737 01:29:02,850 --> 01:29:00,910 free providing unlimited access to 1738 01:29:05,040 --> 01:29:02,860 thousands of live streaming radio 1739 01:29:06,780 --> 01:29:05,050 stations surfer is an exciting 1740 01:29:09,420 --> 01:29:06,790 interactive listening experience 1741 01:29:12,270 --> 01:29:09,430 discovery and surprise of built right in 1742 01:29:15,000 --> 01:29:12,280 surfer is your destination to discover 1743 01:29:17,520 --> 01:29:15,010 and rediscover great live streaming 1744 01:29:19,740 --> 01:29:17,530 music it features high quality audio 1745 01:29:21,390 --> 01:29:19,750 streams free access to music from 1746 01:29:24,210 --> 01:29:21,400 thousands of live streaming radio 1747 01:29:26,700 --> 01:29:24,220 stations unlimited listening unlimited 1748 01:29:28,590 --> 01:29:26,710 skipping you get a music visualizer and 1749 01:29:30,690 --> 01:29:28,600 you can also select your favorite 1750 01:29:32,040 --> 01:29:30,700 channels get it at the Apple App Store 1751 01:29:33,690 --> 01:29:32,050 or Google Play 1752 01:29:35,970 --> 01:29:33,700 just search sir 1753 01:29:38,940 --> 01:29:35,980 or music or click on the surfer banner 1754 01:29:44,790 --> 01:29:38,950 at Jimmy Church radio calm go back lis 1755 01:29:48,210 --> 01:29:44,800 taffy so you love talk radio then you'll 1756 01:29:51,270 --> 01:29:48,220 love talk stream live.com talk stream 1757 01:29:53,460 --> 01:29:51,280 live is always on 24/7 with the best 1758 01:29:55,590 --> 01:29:53,470 streaming talk shows find your favourite 1759 01:29:58,350 --> 01:29:55,600 talkers and discover some new ones it's 1760 01:30:00,480 --> 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Redfern is here we're talking about 1802 01:32:37,040 --> 01:32:34,229 his new book the links for the new book 1803 01:32:38,509 --> 01:32:37,050 are over at Jimmy Church radio.com it is 1804 01:32:41,359 --> 01:32:38,519 called the Rendlesham forest UFO 1805 01:32:44,089 --> 01:32:41,369 conspiracy a close encounter exposed as 1806 01:32:46,189 --> 01:32:44,099 a top secret government experiment now 1807 01:32:49,040 --> 01:32:46,199 Nick I may be wrong here and I apologize 1808 01:32:53,899 --> 01:32:49,050 in advance for what I'm about to ask you 1809 01:32:58,060 --> 01:32:53,909 but wasn't your father he was a radar 1810 01:33:01,189 --> 01:32:58,070 operator do I remember this right yeah 1811 01:33:03,799 --> 01:33:01,199 my dad was a radar mechanic in the 1812 01:33:06,319 --> 01:33:03,809 British Royal Air Force right and he 1813 01:33:09,500 --> 01:33:06,329 spent most of his time actually not too 1814 01:33:13,700 --> 01:33:09,510 far as the as the crows crow fly so to 1815 01:33:17,060 --> 01:33:13,710 speak place put RAF neat his head in the 1816 01:33:20,839 --> 01:33:17,070 UK and games a radar mechanic and he was 1817 01:33:26,450 --> 01:33:20,849 actually involved in three UFO events 1818 01:33:30,500 --> 01:33:26,460 where high-flying fast moving objects 1819 01:33:34,339 --> 01:33:30,510 performing all sorts of weird movements 1820 01:33:37,370 --> 01:33:34,349 were picked up on radar and this went on 1821 01:33:40,189 --> 01:33:37,380 as I said across three incidents and 1822 01:33:42,589 --> 01:33:40,199 that's really what got me interested in 1823 01:33:44,359 --> 01:33:42,599 the subject and I mean I would I would 1824 01:33:47,540 --> 01:33:44,369 stress to people you know I'm not a UFO 1825 01:33:49,850 --> 01:33:47,550 skeptic I'm a Rendlesham skeptic that's 1826 01:33:52,850 --> 01:33:49,860 two very different things you know yes 1827 01:33:55,910 --> 01:33:52,860 your answer yeah when my dad told me 1828 01:33:57,649 --> 01:33:55,920 that when I was about 11 or 12 you know 1829 01:33:59,839 --> 01:33:57,659 he got me interested not because it was 1830 01:34:02,029 --> 01:33:59,849 my own just because it my own guard but 1831 01:34:06,489 --> 01:34:02,039 also because you know he was trained in 1832 01:34:09,020 --> 01:34:06,499 the military on radar as a mechanic and 1833 01:34:11,419 --> 01:34:09,030 that's sort of what got me interested in 1834 01:34:15,080 --> 01:34:11,429 you know reading about the UFO subject 1835 01:34:16,759 --> 01:34:15,090 so you know and when you when you speak 1836 01:34:19,489 --> 01:34:16,769 to someone like I said you know it's not 1837 01:34:22,180 --> 01:34:19,499 just your own father but somebody who is 1838 01:34:24,919 --> 01:34:22,190 you know well-versed in the military 1839 01:34:26,810 --> 01:34:24,929 more would account for a lot you know 1840 01:34:30,020 --> 01:34:26,820 really yeah and 1841 01:34:32,780 --> 01:34:30,030 I I would say that that suggests that 1842 01:34:34,790 --> 01:34:32,790 you understand radar and you've got a 1843 01:34:37,780 --> 01:34:34,800 pretty strong interest in it you brought 1844 01:34:41,390 --> 01:34:37,790 it up a few times on the show so with 1845 01:34:45,950 --> 01:34:41,400 Rendlesham what do you do with the radar 1846 01:34:48,800 --> 01:34:45,960 aspect of it of the reports of tracking 1847 01:34:51,740 --> 01:34:48,810 on radar and if this is something that 1848 01:34:54,710 --> 01:34:51,750 is a non-physical situation how do you 1849 01:34:57,740 --> 01:34:54,720 approach the radar data when it comes to 1850 01:35:00,110 --> 01:34:57,750 Rendlesham well yeah I talk about that 1851 01:35:03,320 --> 01:35:00,120 in the the book as well and I refer to 1852 01:35:08,600 --> 01:35:03,330 the work of a guy named Jean Polti @p 1853 01:35:13,400 --> 01:35:08,610 OTE 80 who spends a lot of time in the 1854 01:35:17,740 --> 01:35:13,410 fifties and sixties doing deep research 1855 01:35:22,640 --> 01:35:17,750 and investigations into how to create 1856 01:35:25,640 --> 01:35:22,650 bogus ghost imagery on right on enemy 1857 01:35:30,200 --> 01:35:25,650 radar screens basically to sort of fool 1858 01:35:34,310 --> 01:35:30,210 the enemy and my conclude well my theory 1859 01:35:37,990 --> 01:35:34,320 I should say is that something along 1860 01:35:42,080 --> 01:35:38,000 those lines was going on to to try and 1861 01:35:43,640 --> 01:35:42,090 you know push the the radar aspect you 1862 01:35:46,370 --> 01:35:43,650 know to demonstrate yes there was 1863 01:35:48,620 --> 01:35:46,380 something in the sky but using sort of 1864 01:35:51,920 --> 01:35:48,630 the kind of technology that part yet 1865 01:35:55,400 --> 01:35:51,930 developed you know you can easily see 1866 01:35:59,180 --> 01:35:55,410 how radar screens can be fooled by sort 1867 01:36:02,120 --> 01:35:59,190 of ghost imagery and I mean one of the 1868 01:36:05,720 --> 01:36:02,130 interesting things as to why I think the 1869 01:36:09,440 --> 01:36:05,730 radar aspect was sort of inserted into 1870 01:36:12,860 --> 01:36:09,450 the story was the revolves around a guy 1871 01:36:15,710 --> 01:36:12,870 named Paul Beck and Paul Berg with 1872 01:36:20,980 --> 01:36:15,720 someone who opened up a story at Royal 1873 01:36:24,260 --> 01:36:20,990 Air Force Wotton Watson whe t o n and 1874 01:36:28,160 --> 01:36:24,270 supposedly US military personnel came 1875 01:36:31,640 --> 01:36:28,170 along and took away some of the the data 1876 01:36:33,980 --> 01:36:31,650 and casually told the Royal Air Force 1877 01:36:37,070 --> 01:36:33,990 personnel hope you know we've got to 1878 01:36:38,520 --> 01:36:37,080 check out these radar tapes because the 1879 01:36:40,260 --> 01:36:38,530 UFO has crashed 1880 01:36:43,400 --> 01:36:40,270 you know that's not how the military 1881 01:36:46,140 --> 01:36:43,410 works I don't casually you know go to 1882 01:36:48,480 --> 01:36:46,150 another military base and say oh you 1883 01:36:51,240 --> 01:36:48,490 know we just yeah we just you know UFOs 1884 01:36:54,210 --> 01:36:51,250 come down we've got the tapes it's 1885 01:36:59,520 --> 01:36:54,220 almost as if you know that was inserted 1886 01:37:02,220 --> 01:36:59,530 deliberately to sort of expand the you 1887 01:37:05,100 --> 01:37:02,230 know the rumors about a UFO coming down 1888 01:37:07,230 --> 01:37:05,110 you know that that to me you know kind 1889 01:37:10,500 --> 01:37:07,240 of sounds suspicious that they would 1890 01:37:13,890 --> 01:37:10,510 have been so open about talking about a 1891 01:37:17,400 --> 01:37:13,900 UFO event it makes it sent to me sounds 1892 01:37:21,420 --> 01:37:17,410 like you know it was pushing the UFO 1893 01:37:23,640 --> 01:37:21,430 angle a little bit too much now has has 1894 01:37:29,450 --> 01:37:23,650 John Burroughs reached out to you 1895 01:37:32,400 --> 01:37:29,460 yeah no he hasn't but just two days ago 1896 01:37:35,990 --> 01:37:32,410 Kevin Randall who's written several 1897 01:37:39,570 --> 01:37:36,000 books on on Roswell 1898 01:37:41,700 --> 01:37:39,580 Kevin asked me just a few days ago to be 1899 01:37:43,850 --> 01:37:41,710 on his show and he happened to mention 1900 01:37:48,300 --> 01:37:43,860 so we did he'd spoken to John and he 1901 01:37:53,010 --> 01:37:48,310 said that John was open to the quote 1902 01:37:55,580 --> 01:37:53,020 secret experiment aspect of all this and 1903 01:37:58,170 --> 01:37:55,590 as I said that that was straight from 1904 01:38:01,770 --> 01:37:58,180 Kevin's mouth well I should say from his 1905 01:38:04,770 --> 01:38:01,780 keyboard two days ago so that in itself 1906 01:38:07,800 --> 01:38:04,780 is you know he's an interesting aspect 1907 01:38:09,840 --> 01:38:07,810 that you know we've got Kerry and 1908 01:38:11,820 --> 01:38:09,850 Randall one of the chief Randall's 1909 01:38:15,270 --> 01:38:11,830 excuse me Roswell researchers and 1910 01:38:17,400 --> 01:38:15,280 authors chatting with John who then 1911 01:38:22,200 --> 01:38:17,410 mentions you know he was open to the 1912 01:38:24,540 --> 01:38:22,210 secret experiment angle and and Kevin 1913 01:38:27,210 --> 01:38:24,550 one-inch wants me to be on his show to 1914 01:38:30,510 --> 01:38:27,220 talk about that so I'm sure because John 1915 01:38:34,170 --> 01:38:30,520 obscure because Kevin mentioned all of 1916 01:38:38,370 --> 01:38:34,180 this to me you know I'm sure he's gonna 1917 01:38:40,860 --> 01:38:38,380 bring that up so it's oh no it again it 1918 01:38:43,230 --> 01:38:40,870 demonstrates that you know you've got GM 1919 01:38:45,410 --> 01:38:43,240 who concludes that he did have you know 1920 01:38:51,560 --> 01:38:45,420 a UFO event 1921 01:38:54,560 --> 01:38:51,570 and you've got John according to what 1922 01:38:56,690 --> 01:38:54,570 Karen said that was open to the UFO side 1923 01:38:58,670 --> 01:38:56,700 of it excuse me to the experiment side 1924 01:39:04,670 --> 01:38:58,680 of it also you know the whole thing is 1925 01:39:07,100 --> 01:39:04,680 is you know very sort of confusing and 1926 01:39:10,130 --> 01:39:07,110 just you know you it's really difficult 1927 01:39:12,940 --> 01:39:10,140 to try and you know put the full picture 1928 01:39:15,920 --> 01:39:12,950 together when you know if you take my 1929 01:39:19,760 --> 01:39:15,930 theory out of the story there's still 1930 01:39:21,410 --> 01:39:19,770 multiple theories I mean for example as 1931 01:39:26,180 --> 01:39:21,420 I said earlier people have talked about 1932 01:39:28,520 --> 01:39:26,190 Soviet craft coming down possibly 1933 01:39:32,840 --> 01:39:28,530 something like an early drone or early 1934 01:39:34,910 --> 01:39:32,850 stealth craft you know all sorts of the 1935 01:39:38,000 --> 01:39:34,920 lighthouse you know things like this so 1936 01:39:41,150 --> 01:39:38,010 that that's one of the one of the kind 1937 01:39:43,400 --> 01:39:41,160 of almost unusual aspects of the case is 1938 01:39:45,710 --> 01:39:43,410 that there are multiple theories now of 1939 01:39:47,810 --> 01:39:45,720 course they can't all be right you know 1940 01:39:50,570 --> 01:39:47,820 there's just no way they could be but 1941 01:39:54,500 --> 01:39:50,580 there are multiple theories out there 1942 01:39:56,060 --> 01:39:54,510 you know well we have to we all have 1943 01:39:58,280 --> 01:39:56,070 come to the conclusion that something 1944 01:40:01,100 --> 01:39:58,290 happened over those three days there's 1945 01:40:03,200 --> 01:40:01,110 no question about that and I have pushed 1946 01:40:06,080 --> 01:40:03,210 I can imagine after this broadcast 1947 01:40:07,820 --> 01:40:06,090 tonight Nick that I will hear from all 1948 01:40:10,490 --> 01:40:07,830 of the players over the next couple of 1949 01:40:16,250 --> 01:40:10,500 days okay and so with that that's fine 1950 01:40:19,820 --> 01:40:16,260 but I have pushed most of them on the 1951 01:40:22,040 --> 01:40:19,830 alien and et aspect of this to get 1952 01:40:24,890 --> 01:40:22,050 somebody to say that I've never had 1953 01:40:27,170 --> 01:40:24,900 anybody that's directly involved with 1954 01:40:29,990 --> 01:40:27,180 the case say now it was definitively 1955 01:40:30,620 --> 01:40:30,000 that UFOs and that includes John 1956 01:40:34,580 --> 01:40:30,630 Burroughs 1957 01:40:36,770 --> 01:40:34,590 happened of course and he's talked about 1958 01:40:39,260 --> 01:40:36,780 it many times on this program and is 1959 01:40:41,530 --> 01:40:39,270 some of the most compelling eyewitness 1960 01:40:45,050 --> 01:40:41,540 testimony that you will ever hear is 1961 01:40:48,410 --> 01:40:45,060 John Burroughs on this show but he has 1962 01:40:50,480 --> 01:40:48,420 never you know who crossed that line you 1963 01:40:52,940 --> 01:40:50,490 know something has caused him physically 1964 01:40:54,170 --> 01:40:52,950 to have been changed there's there's no 1965 01:40:57,780 --> 01:40:54,180 question about that he witnessed 1966 01:41:00,810 --> 01:40:57,790 something and so did everybody else but 1967 01:41:03,510 --> 01:41:00,820 see the line into aliens and et has 1968 01:41:05,610 --> 01:41:03,520 never been something that has been 1969 01:41:08,490 --> 01:41:05,620 positively broached by all of the 1970 01:41:10,260 --> 01:41:08,500 witnesses that's my opinion that Jim 1971 01:41:12,840 --> 01:41:10,270 Penniston has said that he thinks it's 1972 01:41:16,260 --> 01:41:12,850 time travelers from the future that it 1973 01:41:20,010 --> 01:41:16,270 was us that it wasn't necessarily et 1974 01:41:22,080 --> 01:41:20,020 right well yeah I mean you know this 1975 01:41:25,290 --> 01:41:22,090 there's multiple theories and I mean as 1976 01:41:27,720 --> 01:41:25,300 I said earlier if it turns out that we 1977 01:41:30,480 --> 01:41:27,730 have proof but not sort of theories or 1978 01:41:33,780 --> 01:41:30,490 you know perceptions or ideas but if we 1979 01:41:35,250 --> 01:41:33,790 get proof the aliens did come down in 1980 01:41:36,960 --> 01:41:35,260 Rendlesham forest you know I'd be as 1981 01:41:40,260 --> 01:41:36,970 happy as everybody else because as I 1982 01:41:43,170 --> 01:41:40,270 said earlier it would vindicate totally 1983 01:41:46,830 --> 01:41:43,180 vindicate everything that the UFO 1984 01:41:50,850 --> 01:41:46,840 research community as being looking for 1985 01:41:54,420 --> 01:41:50,860 and but it requests you know it's sort 1986 01:41:56,550 --> 01:41:54,430 of it's a situation where we have to 1987 01:41:59,400 --> 01:41:56,560 have the proof you know one way or 1988 01:42:01,860 --> 01:41:59,410 another but and you know and if it turns 1989 01:42:05,310 --> 01:42:01,870 out it was alien it's all happy to be 1990 01:42:07,580 --> 01:42:05,320 happy to say sorry yep got it wrong but 1991 01:42:11,190 --> 01:42:07,590 the fact is I don't think I am wrong but 1992 01:42:13,620 --> 01:42:11,200 you know I am quite open you know if I 1993 01:42:18,660 --> 01:42:13,630 get it wrong well that's how it goes you 1994 01:42:20,130 --> 01:42:18,670 know and so I think we can look at it 1995 01:42:24,690 --> 01:42:20,140 from different perspectives different 1996 01:42:26,010 --> 01:42:24,700 angles but 40 years after debate in all 1997 01:42:28,920 --> 01:42:26,020 these different theories and different 1998 01:42:29,940 --> 01:42:28,930 ideas we're still debating it you know 1999 01:42:33,150 --> 01:42:29,950 on your show tonight 2000 01:42:35,700 --> 01:42:33,160 yeah that's you know if that's a 2001 01:42:38,700 --> 01:42:35,710 positive thing or not that we're talking 2002 01:42:41,430 --> 01:42:38,710 about it still after 40 years you know I 2003 01:42:43,950 --> 01:42:41,440 would hope when I first heard about the 2004 01:42:46,170 --> 01:42:43,960 you know the case when I was just a 2005 01:42:48,540 --> 01:42:46,180 teenager you know when when the first 2006 01:42:51,750 --> 01:42:48,550 book came out sky crash I was still a 2007 01:42:53,820 --> 01:42:51,760 teenager I you know I'm sure back then I 2008 01:42:55,380 --> 01:42:53,830 would have thought if somebody said 40 2009 01:42:58,380 --> 01:42:55,390 years later you're still one of the 2010 01:43:00,060 --> 01:42:58,390 answer I would have been I would have 2011 01:43:03,720 --> 01:43:00,070 thought well of course we'll know after 2012 01:43:05,820 --> 01:43:03,730 40 years before years later we are still 2013 01:43:08,640 --> 01:43:05,830 debating it and as I said I'm not sure 2014 01:43:10,290 --> 01:43:08,650 that's a good thing or a bad thing it's 2015 01:43:11,339 --> 01:43:10,300 a good thing from the perspective that 2016 01:43:14,159 --> 01:43:11,349 we can continue 2017 01:43:16,319 --> 01:43:14,169 you to look for data but it's a bad 2018 01:43:19,739 --> 01:43:16,329 thing in the sense that we've we just 2019 01:43:23,209 --> 01:43:19,749 haven't got the proof and by proof I 2020 01:43:24,779 --> 01:43:23,219 mean you know literal proof rather than 2021 01:43:28,290 --> 01:43:24,789 opinions 2022 01:43:33,179 --> 01:43:28,300 yeah and now there's another aspect to 2023 01:43:34,919 --> 01:43:33,189 this John burrows and Charles halt 2024 01:43:38,580 --> 01:43:34,929 are two of the most tenacious people 2025 01:43:40,679 --> 01:43:38,590 that I know they they are definitely 2026 01:43:43,500 --> 01:43:40,689 willing to go the extra mile trying to 2027 01:43:45,540 --> 01:43:43,510 figure out what happened there and they 2028 01:43:47,969 --> 01:43:45,550 have very strong personalities and have 2029 01:43:52,080 --> 01:43:47,979 a lot of respect for him both but for 2030 01:43:54,810 --> 01:43:52,090 them and especially well these two but 2031 01:43:59,069 --> 01:43:54,820 with like Colonel Hall if he finds out 2032 01:44:01,529 --> 01:43:59,079 that he was part of an experiment and he 2033 01:44:04,560 --> 01:44:01,539 was a guinea pig with the things that he 2034 01:44:07,679 --> 01:44:04,570 witnessed on tape and you know over the 2035 01:44:10,679 --> 01:44:07,689 ammo dumps and and throughout the forest 2036 01:44:13,830 --> 01:44:10,689 and and the write-up that he did you 2037 01:44:17,040 --> 01:44:13,840 know the halt memo and and including the 2038 01:44:19,349 --> 01:44:17,050 illnesses that John burrows has gone 2039 01:44:22,080 --> 01:44:19,359 through trying to chase down what was 2040 01:44:25,469 --> 01:44:22,090 going on they're not gonna be happy 2041 01:44:28,169 --> 01:44:25,479 people are they well I think it's like 2042 01:44:31,679 --> 01:44:28,179 in any situation where you know somebody 2043 01:44:35,489 --> 01:44:31,689 is deceived I mean you want revenge you 2044 01:44:38,489 --> 01:44:35,499 know or you want the the situation put 2045 01:44:40,709 --> 01:44:38,499 right and I think this you know again 2046 01:44:42,629 --> 01:44:40,719 whichever side you look at it whether it 2047 01:44:47,399 --> 01:44:42,639 was an experiment or whether it was a 2048 01:44:50,069 --> 01:44:47,409 UFO I'm sure all the guys would like to 2049 01:44:51,989 --> 01:44:50,079 know what the truth was and what it was 2050 01:44:54,449 --> 01:44:51,999 that was held from them you know 2051 01:44:57,270 --> 01:44:54,459 withheld from them because you know 2052 01:45:01,139 --> 01:44:57,280 again regardless of whether you think 2053 01:45:04,529 --> 01:45:01,149 it's the experiment or UFOs the fact is 2054 01:45:08,399 --> 01:45:04,539 you know the guys were not given a 2055 01:45:10,649 --> 01:45:08,409 satisfy satisfactory response or you 2056 01:45:14,129 --> 01:45:10,659 know they were never given the full 2057 01:45:16,379 --> 01:45:14,139 picture they weren't sort of informed 2058 01:45:19,560 --> 01:45:16,389 you know of what happened to them and 2059 01:45:21,209 --> 01:45:19,570 why and so one of the main reasons why 2060 01:45:24,750 --> 01:45:21,219 they're still frustrated because they 2061 01:45:27,390 --> 01:45:24,760 cannot get the answer so you know you 2062 01:45:30,720 --> 01:45:27,400 that sense this consorted comes round to 2063 01:45:34,170 --> 01:45:30,730 the emotional side Rendlesham which 2064 01:45:36,480 --> 01:45:34,180 there is a huge emotional side to it you 2065 01:45:37,980 --> 01:45:36,490 know which which you can understand you 2066 01:45:41,190 --> 01:45:37,990 know if you were one of the guys and 2067 01:45:44,160 --> 01:45:41,200 four years later you're still forced to 2068 01:45:47,160 --> 01:45:44,170 ponder on this and wonder because you 2069 01:45:51,270 --> 01:45:47,170 never were told that must be you know 2070 01:45:53,190 --> 01:45:51,280 something that grinds on you so so you 2071 01:45:54,990 --> 01:45:53,200 know that brings in sort of like you 2072 01:46:00,150 --> 01:45:55,000 know the human side of it all rather 2073 01:46:04,860 --> 01:46:00,160 than just you know the data part of the 2074 01:46:08,280 --> 01:46:04,870 story would this help explain why every 2075 01:46:10,710 --> 01:46:08,290 step of the way for John burrows and 2076 01:46:13,800 --> 01:46:10,720 Colonel halt who were trying to find 2077 01:46:18,150 --> 01:46:13,810 answers on this they were things were 2078 01:46:20,430 --> 01:46:18,160 buried its secret your records are here 2079 01:46:23,040 --> 01:46:20,440 you know you can't see them no you don't 2080 01:46:27,320 --> 01:46:23,050 have access to this every step of the 2081 01:46:30,570 --> 01:46:27,330 way they were completely stonewalled and 2082 01:46:32,160 --> 01:46:30,580 this would help explain it goes back to 2083 01:46:34,380 --> 01:46:32,170 things like the man-carrying candidate 2084 01:46:36,330 --> 01:46:34,390 or you know like the film Jacob's Ladder 2085 01:46:38,400 --> 01:46:36,340 or you know were these things these 2086 01:46:41,190 --> 01:46:38,410 experiments were happening and when you 2087 01:46:43,770 --> 01:46:41,200 go to trying to find out why that is one 2088 01:46:47,370 --> 01:46:43,780 thing that is going to be kept away from 2089 01:46:50,160 --> 01:46:47,380 you isn't it well yeah I mean I think 2090 01:46:53,190 --> 01:46:50,170 the big irony is that you know very 2091 01:46:55,320 --> 01:46:53,200 often things that are sort of 2092 01:47:00,180 --> 01:46:55,330 down-to-earth but highly controversial 2093 01:47:02,190 --> 01:47:00,190 are hidden for years you know I mean if 2094 01:47:05,120 --> 01:47:02,200 you for example in the early nineteen 2095 01:47:08,100 --> 01:47:05,130 nineties you know when President Clinton 2096 01:47:09,750 --> 01:47:08,110 you know sort of open or try to open all 2097 01:47:12,180 --> 01:47:09,760 the files you know on radiation 2098 01:47:13,950 --> 01:47:12,190 experiments and things like that you 2099 01:47:16,730 --> 01:47:13,960 know which had been much of it had been 2100 01:47:19,440 --> 01:47:16,740 sort of hidden for decades and decades 2101 01:47:22,260 --> 01:47:19,450 you know and and that was highly 2102 01:47:25,890 --> 01:47:22,270 controversial and it involved you know 2103 01:47:29,820 --> 01:47:25,900 regular people so you know you I think 2104 01:47:32,520 --> 01:47:29,830 you can make a case sometimes but you 2105 01:47:35,240 --> 01:47:32,530 know they are down-to-earth secret 2106 01:47:37,899 --> 01:47:35,250 rather than extra-terrestrial secrets 2107 01:47:41,609 --> 01:47:37,909 could in many ways 2108 01:47:44,649 --> 01:47:41,619 be essentially hidden away to two 2109 01:47:46,810 --> 01:47:44,659 extreme degrees you know because it 2110 01:47:48,790 --> 01:47:46,820 involves people that that's the 2111 01:47:52,479 --> 01:47:48,800 important thing you know now what 2112 01:47:56,620 --> 01:47:52,489 government performed this experiment was 2113 01:48:00,459 --> 01:47:56,630 a British was it American was it a joint 2114 01:48:03,870 --> 01:48:00,469 exercise well most of the data that I've 2115 01:48:06,939 --> 01:48:03,880 got sort of suggests it was a UK one I 2116 01:48:11,319 --> 01:48:06,949 mean for example when you look at the 2117 01:48:14,080 --> 01:48:11,329 whole Porton Down angle but Lord Hill 2118 01:48:18,939 --> 01:48:14,090 Norton looked into you know Porton Down 2119 01:48:21,909 --> 01:48:18,949 is a southwest England facility you know 2120 01:48:25,839 --> 01:48:21,919 it's not in the United States or Germany 2121 01:48:29,129 --> 01:48:25,849 or France or anywhere like that and the 2122 01:48:32,169 --> 01:48:29,139 late georgina Bruni who wrote a book on 2123 01:48:37,779 --> 01:48:32,179 Rendlesham also called you can't tell 2124 01:48:39,669 --> 01:48:37,789 the people georgina also found a bunch 2125 01:48:43,359 --> 01:48:39,679 of material on the port and down 2126 01:48:46,060 --> 01:48:43,369 connections as well and and again she 2127 01:48:49,239 --> 01:48:46,070 stressed you know this was important 2128 01:48:55,839 --> 01:48:49,249 down is in the UK so we're looking I 2129 01:48:58,540 --> 01:48:55,849 think at a uk-based phenomena in terms 2130 01:49:00,669 --> 01:48:58,550 of the experiments and another example 2131 01:49:04,299 --> 01:49:00,679 of this revolves around a guy named 2132 01:49:07,899 --> 01:49:04,309 Ralph noise now Ralph noise was a 2133 01:49:10,659 --> 01:49:07,909 long-term employee of the British 2134 01:49:14,140 --> 01:49:10,669 Ministry of Defence and he wrote a book 2135 01:49:18,189 --> 01:49:14,150 a novel I should say in 1985 called a 2136 01:49:21,189 --> 01:49:18,199 secret property and it's sort of a 2137 01:49:26,080 --> 01:49:21,199 thinly veiled version of Rendlesham 2138 01:49:29,469 --> 01:49:26,090 forest for example there's a Colonel 2139 01:49:32,080 --> 01:49:29,479 Hoyt in the in the novel and there's a 2140 01:49:34,629 --> 01:49:32,090 forest where something comes down but 2141 01:49:37,959 --> 01:49:34,639 the the thrust of the story is that 2142 01:49:41,469 --> 01:49:37,969 there's this sort of almost magical 2143 01:49:44,290 --> 01:49:41,479 technology which can create visions in 2144 01:49:47,649 --> 01:49:44,300 front of people's eyes and as I said 2145 01:49:50,100 --> 01:49:47,659 knowing Ralph noise was someone who had 2146 01:49:53,930 --> 01:49:50,110 a long-standing involvement 2147 01:49:58,320 --> 01:49:53,940 ufology and his story does actually also 2148 01:50:01,500 --> 01:49:58,330 touch upon visions and images of things 2149 01:50:04,380 --> 01:50:01,510 that weren't really there so you know I 2150 01:50:08,670 --> 01:50:04,390 think he I think Ralph's noise knew 2151 01:50:11,610 --> 01:50:08,680 something about this and chose to 2152 01:50:16,140 --> 01:50:11,620 portray it in the form of a sort of 2153 01:50:20,390 --> 01:50:16,150 thinly veiled novel now what do we do 2154 01:50:22,980 --> 01:50:20,400 Nik ultimately with these these 2155 01:50:27,060 --> 01:50:22,990 different conclusions and what I mean by 2156 01:50:30,420 --> 01:50:27,070 that is everybody out there is going to 2157 01:50:36,900 --> 01:50:30,430 pick a side but we have a situation here 2158 01:50:40,440 --> 01:50:36,910 like the just escape me the alien 2159 01:50:42,660 --> 01:50:40,450 autopsy footage right and and when we 2160 01:50:44,700 --> 01:50:42,670 have something like that and I can even 2161 01:50:49,350 --> 01:50:44,710 go back we could discuss like billy 2162 01:50:52,890 --> 01:50:49,360 meier or you know where it continues to 2163 01:50:56,610 --> 01:50:52,900 this day to have its supporters whatever 2164 01:50:59,640 --> 01:50:56,620 it may be but here in this case how do 2165 01:51:05,640 --> 01:50:59,650 we move forward right where you're not 2166 01:51:08,820 --> 01:51:05,650 going to convince anybody no you right I 2167 01:51:13,590 --> 01:51:08,830 mean the only way to convince anyone is 2168 01:51:17,700 --> 01:51:13,600 hard proof and not by that would be some 2169 01:51:19,740 --> 01:51:17,710 sort of technology or official documents 2170 01:51:22,170 --> 01:51:19,750 that tell the whole story and that you 2171 01:51:25,650 --> 01:51:22,180 know that come tumbling out one day I 2172 01:51:27,600 --> 01:51:25,660 mean that's I think and I would hope you 2173 01:51:30,870 --> 01:51:27,610 know whatever the answer is aliens and 2174 01:51:32,790 --> 01:51:30,880 experiments something else I would hope 2175 01:51:34,800 --> 01:51:32,800 that would put it to rest then but even 2176 01:51:36,630 --> 01:51:34,810 then I'm not sure you know some people 2177 01:51:40,260 --> 01:51:36,640 might say well how do we know the 2178 01:51:43,010 --> 01:51:40,270 documents oh the real deal you know we 2179 01:51:47,040 --> 01:51:43,020 could be going around in circles 2180 01:51:50,820 --> 01:51:47,050 so unless we get some kind of proof 2181 01:51:51,990 --> 01:51:50,830 which cannot be denied for what it is 2182 01:51:54,540 --> 01:51:52,000 and I don't know what that might be but 2183 01:51:58,080 --> 01:51:54,550 you know and it applies to both sides as 2184 01:52:03,120 --> 01:51:58,090 well unless we get something like that I 2185 01:52:03,780 --> 01:52:03,130 would predict that you know people still 2186 01:52:06,720 --> 01:52:03,790 be having 2187 01:52:09,270 --> 01:52:06,730 like these forty years from now still 2188 01:52:12,090 --> 01:52:09,280 talking about Rendlesham in the same way 2189 01:52:15,480 --> 01:52:12,100 we're still talking about Roswell which 2190 01:52:18,420 --> 01:52:15,490 was now what seventy-three years ago so 2191 01:52:21,110 --> 01:52:18,430 I'm pretty confident that if we don't 2192 01:52:25,890 --> 01:52:21,120 get proof will still be debate in 2193 01:52:28,110 --> 01:52:25,900 Rendlesham and you'll have like a twenty 2194 01:52:31,440 --> 01:52:28,120 four to your twenty fifty equivalence of 2195 01:52:34,500 --> 01:52:31,450 me and 2040 or 2050 equivalents of Nick 2196 01:52:36,030 --> 01:52:34,510 Pope or whatever talking about this case 2197 01:52:40,290 --> 01:52:36,040 which come when it's coming up to its 2198 01:52:43,350 --> 01:52:40,300 hundredth anniversary you know that's 2199 01:52:45,840 --> 01:52:43,360 that might sound you know depressive you 2200 01:52:47,820 --> 01:52:45,850 know convert that we might just still be 2201 01:52:50,370 --> 01:52:47,830 keep talking about Rendlesham forty 2202 01:52:52,680 --> 01:52:50,380 years from now but that's what you 2203 01:52:54,840 --> 01:52:52,690 follow G does you know we still looking 2204 01:52:57,270 --> 01:52:54,850 we're still looking into numerous old 2205 01:53:00,030 --> 01:52:57,280 cases I mean cash Landrum that's still 2206 01:53:03,300 --> 01:53:00,040 debated you know on the subject of TV 2207 01:53:06,690 --> 01:53:03,310 shows that's forty years ago you know 2208 01:53:08,670 --> 01:53:06,700 and well I agree with you and but 2209 01:53:11,760 --> 01:53:08,680 there's another there's another part to 2210 01:53:12,680 --> 01:53:11,770 this that I think anybody listening to 2211 01:53:18,240 --> 01:53:12,690 us right now 2212 01:53:21,450 --> 01:53:18,250 needs to clear the way which is we have 2213 01:53:23,880 --> 01:53:21,460 the hallucination the misting of mild 2214 01:53:31,100 --> 01:53:23,890 you know drugs into the force we have 2215 01:53:33,750 --> 01:53:31,110 that we have the the the 3d production 2216 01:53:35,700 --> 01:53:33,760 projections that were happening not only 2217 01:53:38,570 --> 01:53:35,710 inside of the force but certainly above 2218 01:53:41,880 --> 01:53:38,580 the force because the sightings were 2219 01:53:43,680 --> 01:53:41,890 above the bases as well as inside of the 2220 01:53:46,860 --> 01:53:43,690 force and then we have the second 2221 01:53:49,590 --> 01:53:46,870 farmer's field where a craft was seen on 2222 01:53:51,800 --> 01:53:49,600 the ground and then we have the physical 2223 01:53:55,290 --> 01:53:51,810 traces inside of the force the 2224 01:53:58,260 --> 01:53:55,300 depressions in the ground which would 2225 01:54:01,050 --> 01:53:58,270 indicate physical trace evidence which 2226 01:54:06,270 --> 01:54:01,060 they did go and analyze halt in the crew 2227 01:54:09,660 --> 01:54:06,280 so pretty elaborate to to pull off 2228 01:54:13,290 --> 01:54:09,670 without anybody knowing about this how 2229 01:54:14,880 --> 01:54:13,300 does that get done well you're right I 2230 01:54:15,959 --> 01:54:14,890 mean that's an important thing to note 2231 01:54:19,379 --> 01:54:15,969 is that we talk 2232 01:54:22,649 --> 01:54:19,389 about something fairly sophisticated and 2233 01:54:25,439 --> 01:54:22,659 I I agree with you you know to try and 2234 01:54:29,040 --> 01:54:25,449 pull something off would not be you know 2235 01:54:33,120 --> 01:54:29,050 an easy thing to do but the reason why I 2236 01:54:36,689 --> 01:54:33,130 sort of focused on this angle for the 2237 01:54:40,859 --> 01:54:36,699 book was simply because it keeps 2238 01:54:45,180 --> 01:54:40,869 cropping up here and there in various 2239 01:54:49,319 --> 01:54:45,190 books and various accounts you know for 2240 01:54:54,540 --> 01:54:49,329 example you know went the the the angle 2241 01:54:57,000 --> 01:54:54,550 for example with low-grade allusions and 2242 01:54:59,580 --> 01:54:57,010 that word low-grade old words I should 2243 01:55:03,419 --> 01:54:59,590 say low-grade hallucinogens was actually 2244 01:55:04,649 --> 01:55:03,429 made by the late georgina Bruni and it 2245 01:55:08,509 --> 01:55:04,659 was one of the things that really 2246 01:55:12,989 --> 01:55:08,519 interested Lord Hill Norton she actually 2247 01:55:15,209 --> 01:55:12,999 got more information from several Royal 2248 01:55:19,680 --> 01:55:15,219 Air Force police officers whose names I 2249 01:55:22,140 --> 01:55:19,690 actually know now and the situation is 2250 01:55:25,229 --> 01:55:22,150 that yes we are talking about something 2251 01:55:29,040 --> 01:55:25,239 that would be very very difficult to 2252 01:55:32,430 --> 01:55:29,050 pull off but that does but the fact that 2253 01:55:34,649 --> 01:55:32,440 there are this isn't just one story you 2254 01:55:37,410 --> 01:55:34,659 know coming from me or from one source 2255 01:55:40,919 --> 01:55:37,420 you know in the book I there's multiple 2256 01:55:43,739 --> 01:55:40,929 sources for the port and and story there 2257 01:55:46,129 --> 01:55:43,749 are rumors but on the night the first 2258 01:55:49,319 --> 01:55:46,139 night there was going to be back 2259 01:55:51,239 --> 01:55:49,329 evacuations of several local prisons 2260 01:55:54,330 --> 01:55:51,249 I've got like five or six different 2261 01:55:57,299 --> 01:55:54,340 sources for that aspect of the story 2262 01:56:00,330 --> 01:55:57,309 so what despite the fact that we are 2263 01:56:04,469 --> 01:56:00,340 talking about something incredibly 2264 01:56:08,479 --> 01:56:04,479 intricate to do the fact is that there 2265 01:56:14,969 --> 01:56:08,489 are multiple sources and data for the 2266 01:56:16,770 --> 01:56:14,979 the idea of a secret experiment and you 2267 01:56:19,290 --> 01:56:16,780 know for and it's not just in the UK you 2268 01:56:21,540 --> 01:56:19,300 know as I said with rainbow J an active 2269 01:56:24,149 --> 01:56:21,550 priest you know he's gone on the record 2270 01:56:27,089 --> 01:56:24,159 as saying that you know he met the guys 2271 01:56:29,399 --> 01:56:27,099 and they they refused to give him the 2272 01:56:32,010 --> 01:56:29,409 project name but 2273 01:56:35,280 --> 01:56:32,020 but they shared as much as information 2274 01:56:39,689 --> 01:56:35,290 as they could so you know I think the 2275 01:56:42,540 --> 01:56:39,699 story itself I mean is it's probably you 2276 01:56:45,540 --> 01:56:42,550 know a somebody said to me how much of a 2277 01:56:47,910 --> 01:56:45,550 story that the story that I'm presenting 2278 01:56:51,149 --> 01:56:47,920 how much of the story - I think I've got 2279 01:56:53,340 --> 01:56:51,159 I think it's probably a small amount and 2280 01:56:56,010 --> 01:56:53,350 I think you could apply that you know to 2281 01:56:58,649 --> 01:56:56,020 what was known behind closed doors if it 2282 01:57:01,680 --> 01:56:58,659 was a UFO event you know we'd we're kind 2283 01:57:05,729 --> 01:57:01,690 of limited to what we know and we're 2284 01:57:08,040 --> 01:57:05,739 forced to sort of speculate and and to 2285 01:57:10,310 --> 01:57:08,050 be honest slow speculating is one of the 2286 01:57:12,899 --> 01:57:10,320 worst things we can do but to a degree 2287 01:57:15,689 --> 01:57:12,909 you know we're forced to and I have to 2288 01:57:18,090 --> 01:57:15,699 admit I have to speculate you know when 2289 01:57:20,100 --> 01:57:18,100 it comes to certain aspects of the 2290 01:57:22,919 --> 01:57:20,110 experiment you know I'm not going to shy 2291 01:57:26,939 --> 01:57:22,929 away and say everything ties together 2292 01:57:29,430 --> 01:57:26,949 and you know it's totally 100% smooth 2293 01:57:32,640 --> 01:57:29,440 you know I'm not gonna play it up like 2294 01:57:36,090 --> 01:57:32,650 that you know there are issues there's 2295 01:57:38,790 --> 01:57:36,100 no doubt about that and you know I'm not 2296 01:57:40,919 --> 01:57:38,800 gonna lie about that because because it 2297 01:57:45,330 --> 01:57:40,929 would be wrong you know and as I said 2298 01:57:46,620 --> 01:57:45,340 you know the beginning in relation you 2299 01:57:49,680 --> 01:57:46,630 said you know you said what do you think 2300 01:57:52,770 --> 01:57:49,690 this book's gonna sell and and as I said 2301 01:57:56,010 --> 01:57:52,780 no because it's not what people in 2302 01:57:58,830 --> 01:57:56,020 ufology want to hear and you know I'm 2303 01:58:02,340 --> 01:57:58,840 sure there are people in the publishing 2304 01:58:05,310 --> 01:58:02,350 world would sort of like would be amazed 2305 01:58:10,709 --> 01:58:05,320 that an author would say their book 2306 01:58:12,390 --> 01:58:10,719 isn't likely to sell what am I supposed 2307 01:58:15,149 --> 01:58:12,400 to do I don't think it'll sell well 2308 01:58:17,220 --> 01:58:15,159 because it's not what most people in 2309 01:58:22,939 --> 01:58:17,230 ufology want to hear and I'm not gonna 2310 01:58:26,160 --> 01:58:22,949 deny that or try and you know sort of 2311 01:58:30,479 --> 01:58:26,170 make it sound even better than whatever 2312 01:58:32,580 --> 01:58:30,489 you know I people willing you in ufology 2313 01:58:35,700 --> 01:58:32,590 a lot of people in ufology will take the 2314 01:58:38,010 --> 01:58:35,710 same approach that they've taken to say 2315 01:58:40,830 --> 01:58:38,020 for example somebody's wrote a book on 2316 01:58:41,340 --> 01:58:40,840 Roswell that it was a mogul balloon or 2317 01:58:43,920 --> 01:58:41,350 crashed 2318 01:58:47,340 --> 01:58:43,930 dummies most people in ufology will not 2319 01:58:49,290 --> 01:58:47,350 buy that book and I think with mine they 2320 01:58:53,760 --> 01:58:49,300 might find it interesting they might be 2321 01:58:56,010 --> 01:58:53,770 frustrated by it but a best-seller No 2322 01:58:59,610 --> 01:58:56,020 somebody just posted this quote from 2323 01:59:03,000 --> 01:58:59,620 Frank Zappa it says a mind is like a 2324 01:59:08,040 --> 01:59:03,010 parachute it doesn't work if it's not 2325 01:59:09,900 --> 01:59:08,050 open well-played let's take our break 2326 01:59:12,240 --> 01:59:09,910 right here our guest tonight Nick 2327 01:59:14,520 --> 01:59:12,250 Redfern his new book is called the 2328 01:59:17,340 --> 01:59:14,530 Rendlesham forest UFO conspiracy a close 2329 01:59:19,650 --> 01:59:17,350 encounter exposed as a top secret 2330 01:59:21,690 --> 01:59:19,660 government experiment I'm yours to be 2331 01:59:26,030 --> 01:59:21,700 Turk more with Nick when we come back 2332 01:59:26,040 --> 01:59:30,090 [Music] 2333 01:59:37,230 --> 01:59:32,530 everybody's out of the mental guard on 2334 01:59:43,840 --> 01:59:40,510 this is kera digital broadcasting 2335 01:59:46,420 --> 01:59:43,850 station Salt Lake City Utah Van Buren 2336 01:59:48,670 --> 01:59:46,430 Arkansas why is it we're not very good 2337 01:59:49,090 --> 01:59:48,680 with our health regiment until it's too 2338 01:59:50,950 --> 01:59:49,100 late 2339 01:59:52,780 --> 01:59:50,960 we don't put oil in the car until the 2340 01:59:55,540 --> 01:59:52,790 engine blows up when the body's out of 2341 01:59:56,740 --> 01:59:55,550 balance your health is not so good give 2342 01:59:59,580 --> 01:59:56,750 your body some love 2343 02:00:02,290 --> 01:59:59,590 log on to get the t.com that's get the 2344 02:00:04,480 --> 02:00:02,300 t-dot-com try our life change tea which 2345 02:00:07,060 --> 02:00:04,490 cleanses you from harmful intruders a 2346 02:00:09,160 --> 02:00:07,070 clean colon is one of the ways to bring 2347 02:00:10,990 --> 02:00:09,170 the body and balance we also carry 2348 02:00:13,570 --> 02:00:11,000 organic supplements to help you get 2349 02:00:14,260 --> 02:00:13,580 where you 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02:00:55,150 --> 02:00:52,840 radio.com 2365 02:00:57,040 --> 02:00:55,160 this is Jimmy Church of fade to black 2366 02:01:00,280 --> 02:00:57,050 and I only drink 2367 02:01:02,800 --> 02:01:00,290 fade to black blend coffee from River 2368 02:01:05,140 --> 02:01:02,810 Moon just click on the River Moon coffee 2369 02:01:09,820 --> 02:01:05,150 banner at Jimmy Church radio.com 2370 02:01:12,310 --> 02:01:09,830 promo code f2b blend so are you tired of 2371 02:01:14,770 --> 02:01:12,320 being tired well then it's time to get 2372 02:01:17,170 --> 02:01:14,780 the tea hey it's Lisa here to tell you 2373 02:01:18,970 --> 02:01:17,180 about this all-natural all organic tea 2374 02:01:20,620 --> 02:01:18,980 I've been drinking that has had great 2375 02:01:23,530 --> 02:01:20,630 results for over 20 years 2376 02:01:25,390 --> 02:01:23,540 it's called life changed tea and it's 2377 02:01:28,000 --> 02:01:25,400 specially formulated to help detoxify 2378 02:01:30,700 --> 02:01:28,010 and cleanse your kidneys liver colon and 2379 02:01:32,080 --> 02:01:30,710 blood all at once the colon is one of 2380 02:01:34,840 --> 02:01:32,090 the most ignored organs in the human 2381 02:01:36,670 --> 02:01:34,850 body the faster that waste is eliminated 2382 02:01:38,680 --> 02:01:36,680 from the body the less time that way 2383 02:01:40,570 --> 02:01:38,690 sits in our intestines sprinting toxins 2384 02:01:42,550 --> 02:01:40,580 to our bloodstream this tea helps 2385 02:01:44,770 --> 02:01:42,560 cleanse chemicals caused by outside 2386 02:01:47,470 --> 02:01:44,780 intruders from our entire digestive 2387 02:01:48,759 --> 02:01:47,480 system and get this weight loss can be a 2388 02:01:50,919 --> 02:01:48,769 side effect 2389 02:01:52,929 --> 02:01:50,929 with continued use of the tea you can 2390 02:01:55,479 --> 02:01:52,939 experience clearer healthier younger 2391 02:01:57,309 --> 02:01:55,489 looking skin increased energy and a 2392 02:01:58,629 --> 02:01:57,319 happier outlook on life so if you're 2393 02:02:01,389 --> 02:01:58,639 tired of being tired 2394 02:02:02,199 --> 02:02:01,399 get the life changed tea at get the tea 2395 02:02:06,809 --> 02:02:02,209 calm 2396 02:02:08,979 --> 02:02:06,819 you'll be glad you did 2397 02:02:10,689 --> 02:02:08,989 did you know that when you're on the 2398 02:02:13,179 --> 02:02:10,699 road with limited data or Wi-Fi 2399 02:02:15,279 --> 02:02:13,189 available you can still listen to every 2400 02:02:17,859 --> 02:02:15,289 minute of fade to black by just calling 2401 02:02:20,919 --> 02:02:17,869 six oh five five six two four four eight 2402 02:02:23,409 --> 02:02:20,929 two no smartphone app or internet needed 2403 02:02:26,019 --> 02:02:23,419 it saves your data plan and no extra 2404 02:02:28,809 --> 02:02:26,029 cost if you have unlimited minutes just 2405 02:02:30,969 --> 02:02:28,819 call six oh five five six two four four 2406 02:02:34,000 --> 02:02:30,979 eight two you can listen to me Jimmy 2407 02:02:53,199 --> 02:02:34,010 Church on any phone anytime anywhere 2408 02:02:56,829 --> 02:02:53,209 Gobekli Tepe I'm serious I couldn't stay 2409 02:03:03,720 --> 02:02:56,839 sane without Pony mr. Brooks I fade to 2410 02:03:07,689 --> 02:03:05,560 this is fade to black 2411 02:03:11,379 --> 02:03:07,699 with Jimmy Church on the game changer 2412 02:03:13,790 --> 02:03:11,389 radio network and kgr a the global radio 2413 02:03:25,659 --> 02:03:13,800 alliance 2414 02:03:28,129 --> 02:03:25,669 [Music] 2415 02:03:30,549 --> 02:03:28,139 welcome back betta block I'm no subete 2416 02:03:33,500 --> 02:03:30,559 Church I guess tonight Nick Redfern 2417 02:03:35,810 --> 02:03:33,510 talking about his new book and it is 2418 02:03:39,020 --> 02:03:35,820 definitely rippling the waters out there 2419 02:03:41,569 --> 02:03:39,030 it's called the Rendlesham forest UFO 2420 02:03:44,659 --> 02:03:41,579 conspiracy a close encounter exposed as 2421 02:03:48,979 --> 02:03:44,669 a top secret government experiment now 2422 02:03:53,089 --> 02:03:48,989 Nick I know you may try to answer this a 2423 02:03:56,629 --> 02:03:53,099 certain way but let's I want you to just 2424 02:03:59,359 --> 02:03:56,639 just do your Nick Redford thing and and 2425 02:04:04,449 --> 02:03:59,369 and go outside of the box a little bit 2426 02:04:09,560 --> 02:04:04,459 because there is a challenge of 2427 02:04:11,089 --> 02:04:09,570 overcoming the evidence that has already 2428 02:04:13,219 --> 02:04:11,099 been out there in the eyewitness 2429 02:04:15,259 --> 02:04:13,229 testimony and the physical stuff and 2430 02:04:19,359 --> 02:04:15,269 everything all of that stuff is out 2431 02:04:23,599 --> 02:04:19,369 there there's a challenge to writing 2432 02:04:26,599 --> 02:04:23,609 something that absolutely is gonna come 2433 02:04:31,939 --> 02:04:26,609 back at you like a sentence for sentence 2434 02:04:34,129 --> 02:04:31,949 right it's there is it's like easy it's 2435 02:04:35,869 --> 02:04:34,139 fish in a barrel for a lot of these UFO 2436 02:04:37,609 --> 02:04:35,879 researchers because of the things that 2437 02:04:40,339 --> 02:04:37,619 have been out there about this case for 2438 02:04:44,419 --> 02:04:40,349 years you're gonna be challenged every 2439 02:04:46,520 --> 02:04:44,429 step of the way aren't you well yeah but 2440 02:04:48,199 --> 02:04:46,530 I mean you know I mean I anticipated 2441 02:04:52,009 --> 02:04:48,209 that when I wrote the book I mean you 2442 02:04:53,689 --> 02:04:52,019 can't write a book on Rendlesham and say 2443 02:04:58,069 --> 02:04:53,699 it was a secret experiment and not 2444 02:05:01,580 --> 02:04:58,079 expect to get not just feedback but also 2445 02:05:04,129 --> 02:05:01,590 you know sort of like the military 2446 02:05:08,209 --> 02:05:04,139 coming over the hill coming after you 2447 02:05:10,699 --> 02:05:08,219 you know kind a situation you know it's 2448 02:05:14,779 --> 02:05:10,709 such a it's a controversial fascinating 2449 02:05:17,899 --> 02:05:14,789 story to begin with but to insert an 2450 02:05:22,310 --> 02:05:17,909 experiment aspect to this yeah I mean 2451 02:05:24,790 --> 02:05:22,320 just about every aspect I would imagine 2452 02:05:27,919 --> 02:05:24,800 well not quite every every aspect but a 2453 02:05:29,389 --> 02:05:27,929 significant amount of the story I think 2454 02:05:31,250 --> 02:05:29,399 paid you know somebody's gonna say well 2455 02:05:33,679 --> 02:05:31,260 what about this you know what about that 2456 02:05:36,429 --> 02:05:33,689 why did you say it was this and somebody 2457 02:05:39,459 --> 02:05:36,439 else said it in that book you know I'm 2458 02:05:42,909 --> 02:05:39,469 you cannot write a book like that which 2459 02:05:46,479 --> 02:05:42,919 is so so controversial and not expect to 2460 02:05:49,299 --> 02:05:46,489 have to to respond you know I know I 2461 02:05:51,250 --> 02:05:49,309 mean on Facebook at the last three or 2462 02:05:55,330 --> 02:05:51,260 four days you know I've spent nothing 2463 02:05:57,370 --> 02:05:55,340 but answer you know questions or just we 2464 02:05:59,770 --> 02:05:57,380 just dealing with debating back and 2465 02:06:03,639 --> 02:05:59,780 forth you know and and that's a good 2466 02:06:05,620 --> 02:06:03,649 thing you know and I think like most of 2467 02:06:07,359 --> 02:06:05,630 you follow gee all of those that all 2468 02:06:08,250 --> 02:06:07,369 that debate in and commentary and 2469 02:06:10,750 --> 02:06:08,260 everything else 2470 02:06:12,879 --> 02:06:10,760 still never get answers you know that 2471 02:06:16,330 --> 02:06:12,889 that's that's why you follow gee works 2472 02:06:18,489 --> 02:06:16,340 you can debate things you can you know 2473 02:06:20,409 --> 02:06:18,499 have an entire comp you know a weekend 2474 02:06:23,609 --> 02:06:20,419 conference with five or six people 2475 02:06:26,169 --> 02:06:23,619 talking about Rendlesham you know and 2476 02:06:27,850 --> 02:06:26,179 and you could have somebody talking 2477 02:06:30,669 --> 02:06:27,860 about the UFO angle somebody else 2478 02:06:32,350 --> 02:06:30,679 talking about just a hoax you know may 2479 02:06:34,449 --> 02:06:32,360 talk maybe experiment at the end of that 2480 02:06:36,370 --> 02:06:34,459 weekend we won't have got any further 2481 02:06:43,179 --> 02:06:36,380 because that's you fault that's what 2482 02:06:45,489 --> 02:06:43,189 ufology does when when it started you 2483 02:06:47,979 --> 02:06:45,499 know the comments started over on 2484 02:06:50,409 --> 02:06:47,989 Facebook literally Nick I'm not kidding 2485 02:06:53,259 --> 02:06:50,419 I went okay I can't read this I know 2486 02:06:56,049 --> 02:06:53,269 this is gonna start going in all kinds 2487 02:06:58,149 --> 02:06:56,059 of directions here and I I didn't want 2488 02:07:02,439 --> 02:06:58,159 to do it because of this show first off 2489 02:07:03,520 --> 02:07:02,449 but I also know it's a road that doesn't 2490 02:07:07,169 --> 02:07:03,530 have an end 2491 02:07:10,679 --> 02:07:07,179 there's no conclusion that's it 2492 02:07:13,929 --> 02:07:10,689 it's it's chasing your own tails and 2493 02:07:16,179 --> 02:07:13,939 it's it's definitely going to continue 2494 02:07:21,489 --> 02:07:16,189 with this but there's there's another 2495 02:07:23,589 --> 02:07:21,499 twist and and here it is last week the 2496 02:07:26,949 --> 02:07:23,599 United States Navy as everybody knows 2497 02:07:30,250 --> 02:07:26,959 decided to officially I'm using air 2498 02:07:32,169 --> 02:07:30,260 quotes officially release those three 2499 02:07:35,830 --> 02:07:32,179 videos they gimbal the FLIR and 2500 02:07:38,770 --> 02:07:35,840 the go-fast there has been another 2501 02:07:42,790 --> 02:07:38,780 suggestion to this which i think is a 2502 02:07:45,560 --> 02:07:42,800 very strong consideration is that what 2503 02:07:50,299 --> 02:07:47,839 the west coast in San Diego then of 2504 02:07:52,509 --> 02:07:50,309 course over the East Coast off of 2505 02:07:55,640 --> 02:07:52,519 Florida but those two carrier groups 2506 02:07:58,609 --> 02:07:55,650 quite honestly could have been the 2507 02:08:03,049 --> 02:07:58,619 testing of some very top-secret 2508 02:08:05,299 --> 02:08:03,059 technology and the reaction not only 2509 02:08:07,310 --> 02:08:05,309 with radar imaging but what what the 2510 02:08:11,000 --> 02:08:07,320 pilots would witness and how everybody 2511 02:08:14,509 --> 02:08:11,010 would respond to it and that that that 2512 02:08:16,399 --> 02:08:14,519 ruffled a lot of feathers but I can sit 2513 02:08:18,350 --> 02:08:16,409 back and go well it could be aliens or 2514 02:08:21,350 --> 02:08:18,360 et and what's in the videos is certainly 2515 02:08:25,310 --> 02:08:21,360 interesting but could it just be 2516 02:08:27,379 --> 02:08:25,320 something else and that is what we're 2517 02:08:29,779 --> 02:08:27,389 suggesting here you're suggesting with 2518 02:08:32,629 --> 02:08:29,789 the Rendlesham case but it's not that 2519 02:08:37,160 --> 02:08:32,639 far outside of the realm of possibility 2520 02:08:38,689 --> 02:08:37,170 is it no I don't believe it is if I did 2521 02:08:41,209 --> 02:08:38,699 you know I wouldn't have written the 2522 02:08:43,160 --> 02:08:41,219 book in the first place and I certainly 2523 02:08:44,959 --> 02:08:43,170 wouldn't have you know written a book if 2524 02:08:50,930 --> 02:08:44,969 there was just like one or two sources 2525 02:08:52,970 --> 02:08:50,940 that were talking about this and and so 2526 02:08:54,709 --> 02:08:52,980 for that reason with all those reasons I 2527 02:08:57,560 --> 02:08:54,719 should say more than anything else you 2528 02:08:59,029 --> 02:08:57,570 know is what prompted me to do this but 2529 02:09:01,600 --> 02:08:59,039 you're right yeah you know when you 2530 02:09:04,819 --> 02:09:01,610 talked about you know the Navy I mean 2531 02:09:06,560 --> 02:09:04,829 who's talking about a real UFO yes could 2532 02:09:08,569 --> 02:09:06,570 we'll be talking about something that's 2533 02:09:11,000 --> 02:09:08,579 sort of something of ours well yes and 2534 02:09:13,149 --> 02:09:11,010 there's just paper out the loop don't 2535 02:09:16,279 --> 02:09:13,159 know and they think it's a UFO 2536 02:09:19,129 --> 02:09:16,289 but yeah you're right you know when you 2537 02:09:22,040 --> 02:09:19,139 said that we can debate this forever and 2538 02:09:23,930 --> 02:09:22,050 a day and it'll create a lot of 2539 02:09:27,259 --> 02:09:23,940 entertainments for the people who read 2540 02:09:30,529 --> 02:09:27,269 the comments back and forth but at the 2541 02:09:34,129 --> 02:09:30,539 end of the day it's not gonna solve it 2542 02:09:35,810 --> 02:09:34,139 because if it was solved you know there 2543 02:09:37,310 --> 02:09:35,820 wouldn't be any more books on Rendlesham 2544 02:09:41,060 --> 02:09:37,320 mean you wouldn't be having this chat 2545 02:09:46,549 --> 02:09:41,070 now you know that's right so I'm not 2546 02:09:49,160 --> 02:09:46,559 sure how we take it further you know and 2547 02:09:51,290 --> 02:09:49,170 by that I mean you know we can collect 2548 02:09:55,819 --> 02:09:51,300 more data and more information and more 2549 02:09:59,339 --> 02:09:55,829 testimony but whichever the answer is 2550 02:10:02,640 --> 02:09:59,349 that is the true answer we still have 2551 02:10:06,870 --> 02:10:02,650 to find the evidence to really nail it 2552 02:10:11,520 --> 02:10:06,880 down and unfortunately we failed to do 2553 02:10:13,649 --> 02:10:11,530 that vo we did did you notice and I'm 2554 02:10:18,149 --> 02:10:13,659 sure that you followed it to to a 2555 02:10:21,229 --> 02:10:18,159 certain degree but when it came to the 2556 02:10:24,540 --> 02:10:21,239 Nimitz in the Roosevelt and the 2557 02:10:28,319 --> 02:10:24,550 suggestion that that was put out there 2558 02:10:31,319 --> 02:10:28,329 about it you know being our aircraft our 2559 02:10:33,569 --> 02:10:31,329 secret programs and it was just being 2560 02:10:35,970 --> 02:10:33,579 tested off the waters the Navy was there 2561 02:10:39,780 --> 02:10:35,980 and we were we would be able to collect 2562 02:10:42,000 --> 02:10:39,790 this data the absolute flaming of the 2563 02:10:45,450 --> 02:10:42,010 UFO community and how everybody just 2564 02:10:47,459 --> 02:10:45,460 came to the defense of absolutely not it 2565 02:10:50,160 --> 02:10:47,469 has to be aliens it can't be anything 2566 02:10:50,580 --> 02:10:50,170 else why would our government do this to 2567 02:10:52,379 --> 02:10:50,590 us 2568 02:10:55,620 --> 02:10:52,389 well there's plenty of evidence of 2569 02:10:58,169 --> 02:10:55,630 testing on our soldiers going back to 2570 02:11:01,800 --> 02:10:58,179 the beginning of time it's always been 2571 02:11:03,569 --> 02:11:01,810 there well I think you know when you 2572 02:11:05,490 --> 02:11:03,579 said about you know everything sort of 2573 02:11:07,109 --> 02:11:05,500 people getting fired up you know it's 2574 02:11:08,459 --> 02:11:07,119 got to be this theory and it can't be 2575 02:11:11,189 --> 02:11:08,469 this or whatever 2576 02:11:13,350 --> 02:11:11,199 I mean that that does kind of you know 2577 02:11:16,410 --> 02:11:13,360 again time with the emotional side now I 2578 02:11:19,589 --> 02:11:16,420 mean for people who've been you know you 2579 02:11:21,780 --> 02:11:19,599 know profound UFO events you know as I 2580 02:11:24,720 --> 02:11:21,790 said I do believe there's a genuine UFO 2581 02:11:27,180 --> 02:11:24,730 phenomenon and for people who've had you 2582 02:11:29,939 --> 02:11:27,190 know really close profound encounters 2583 02:11:33,180 --> 02:11:29,949 you know I can understand why they are 2584 02:11:36,540 --> 02:11:33,190 so emotional about you know their 2585 02:11:39,060 --> 02:11:36,550 experience because they know you know 2586 02:11:43,560 --> 02:11:39,070 what happened to them and they want 2587 02:11:46,939 --> 02:11:43,570 answers but sometimes you know the 2588 02:11:49,229 --> 02:11:46,949 emotional side of it can cause problems 2589 02:11:52,740 --> 02:11:49,239 you know when we're trying to figure 2590 02:11:56,250 --> 02:11:52,750 something out you know yeah you're right 2591 02:11:59,370 --> 02:11:56,260 and I'll tell you why just and the the 2592 02:12:03,540 --> 02:11:59,380 parallels between Rendlesham and the 2593 02:12:06,330 --> 02:12:03,550 nimitz encounters are actually pretty 2594 02:12:11,370 --> 02:12:06,340 profound if you look at it because we 2595 02:12:12,209 --> 02:12:11,380 have the the evidence right the evidence 2596 02:12:15,719 --> 02:12:12,219 is is 2597 02:12:17,640 --> 02:12:15,729 they're limited or not in both cases we 2598 02:12:19,830 --> 02:12:17,650 even have videos from Nimitz we have 2599 02:12:22,439 --> 02:12:19,840 audio recordings from Rendlesham right 2600 02:12:24,719 --> 02:12:22,449 so we have that kind of stuff and then 2601 02:12:27,569 --> 02:12:24,729 we have you can draw your own 2602 02:12:29,969 --> 02:12:27,579 conclusions from that but then we have 2603 02:12:32,040 --> 02:12:29,979 the eyewitness testimony and with the 2604 02:12:33,839 --> 02:12:32,050 with the amendments encounters and Dave 2605 02:12:37,700 --> 02:12:33,849 flavor and and everybody from the 2606 02:12:42,390 --> 02:12:37,710 Princeton and and the list of names of 2607 02:12:44,489 --> 02:12:42,400 these enlisted servicemen and men and 2608 02:12:46,950 --> 02:12:44,499 women that have come forward their 2609 02:12:49,109 --> 02:12:46,960 testimony is compelling and we have to 2610 02:12:53,160 --> 02:12:49,119 take that into account and it's the same 2611 02:12:55,799 --> 02:12:53,170 thing with Rendlesham the testimony from 2612 02:13:00,330 --> 02:12:55,809 those eyewitnesses is as compelling as 2613 02:13:03,149 --> 02:13:00,340 it gets it doesn't mean it is something 2614 02:13:05,790 --> 02:13:03,159 that we can identify as alien or et in 2615 02:13:07,410 --> 02:13:05,800 either case but it's something that we 2616 02:13:10,140 --> 02:13:07,420 have to take into consideration because 2617 02:13:12,959 --> 02:13:10,150 everybody saw something and I think that 2618 02:13:15,810 --> 02:13:12,969 we all will admit that something did 2619 02:13:20,989 --> 02:13:15,820 occur in both cases we just don't know 2620 02:13:24,209 --> 02:13:20,999 what it was that's really sort of my 2621 02:13:27,479 --> 02:13:24,219 approach or my sort of conclusion or 2622 02:13:29,310 --> 02:13:27,489 tentative conclusion is that I mean it's 2623 02:13:33,600 --> 02:13:29,320 like I mentioned sort of early in the 2624 02:13:36,810 --> 02:13:33,610 show but in my book you know I point out 2625 02:13:41,310 --> 02:13:36,820 in my view that Jim Penniston and John 2626 02:13:45,830 --> 02:13:41,320 Burroughs are two of the most important 2627 02:13:49,049 --> 02:13:45,840 people in the entire story you know and 2628 02:13:51,779 --> 02:13:49,059 because they were there I wasn't you 2629 02:13:54,149 --> 02:13:51,789 know and but also because of who they 2630 02:13:58,410 --> 02:13:54,159 were and still are you know in terms of 2631 02:14:01,560 --> 02:13:58,420 their standing and so when you when you 2632 02:14:04,410 --> 02:14:01,570 kind of look at it like that you know 2633 02:14:09,359 --> 02:14:04,420 yeah you've got you know you've got 2634 02:14:11,759 --> 02:14:09,369 amazing statements you know and but then 2635 02:14:14,879 --> 02:14:11,769 on the other side you've got the angle 2636 02:14:18,719 --> 02:14:14,889 of well were the guys best with you know 2637 02:14:21,479 --> 02:14:18,729 and and this is where it gets you know 2638 02:14:23,840 --> 02:14:21,489 sort of confusing because you know 2639 02:14:26,210 --> 02:14:23,850 somebody said to me the other day 2640 02:14:28,310 --> 02:14:26,220 something like you know why you why you 2641 02:14:31,220 --> 02:14:28,320 criticizing the guys well I've never 2642 02:14:34,100 --> 02:14:31,230 criticized any of the military personnel 2643 02:14:35,990 --> 02:14:34,110 in Rendlesham forest because regardless 2644 02:14:38,000 --> 02:14:36,000 if it was an alien event that's what 2645 02:14:40,490 --> 02:14:38,010 they saw if there was an experiment 2646 02:14:45,380 --> 02:14:40,500 involving Holograms well you know they 2647 02:14:47,600 --> 02:14:45,390 still saw something and as I said you 2648 02:14:50,420 --> 02:14:47,610 know there's no there's no being 2649 02:14:53,270 --> 02:14:50,430 critical on my part I'm looking it from 2650 02:14:57,400 --> 02:14:53,280 the perspective of what did they say 2651 02:15:00,500 --> 02:14:57,410 under what specific circumstances so you 2652 02:15:03,530 --> 02:15:00,510 know it's we're we're in a situation 2653 02:15:04,250 --> 02:15:03,540 where we're I'm not sure where we can go 2654 02:15:08,270 --> 02:15:04,260 with it 2655 02:15:13,370 --> 02:15:08,280 you know and I'm not sure we'll ever 2656 02:15:14,390 --> 02:15:13,380 know yeah let me let's let's address the 2657 02:15:21,200 --> 02:15:14,400 elephant in the room 2658 02:15:24,140 --> 02:15:21,210 any of this because I've just gotten 2659 02:15:28,160 --> 02:15:24,150 over this and over this in my mind that 2660 02:15:30,700 --> 02:15:28,170 when Penniston and Burroughs took a peak 2661 02:15:35,900 --> 02:15:30,710 up over the hill over the ridge and 2662 02:15:39,470 --> 02:15:35,910 looked at this craft was if we go with 2663 02:15:41,990 --> 02:15:39,480 your conclusions here that it was a 2664 02:15:45,200 --> 02:15:42,000 government experiment that means what 2665 02:15:47,930 --> 02:15:45,210 they were looking at was a model was a 2666 02:15:51,410 --> 02:15:47,940 mock-up it was a craft that was placed 2667 02:15:57,950 --> 02:15:51,420 in the woods right is there another way 2668 02:16:00,770 --> 02:15:57,960 to look at this well again you know the 2669 02:16:04,790 --> 02:16:00,780 perspective of what you're saying under 2670 02:16:06,890 --> 02:16:04,800 the circumstances that that are before 2671 02:16:11,030 --> 02:16:06,900 you you know and as I said when you've 2672 02:16:13,820 --> 02:16:11,040 also got you know rumors of Porton Down 2673 02:16:17,570 --> 02:16:13,830 coming into the story as well you know I 2674 02:16:19,760 --> 02:16:17,580 think it's so difficult it's difficult 2675 02:16:22,160 --> 02:16:19,770 for me to put the picture together 2676 02:16:27,470 --> 02:16:22,170 because there are so many strands but 2677 02:16:32,690 --> 02:16:27,480 you know my perspective is that when you 2678 02:16:35,900 --> 02:16:32,700 have not just a UFO event but you've got 2679 02:16:39,290 --> 02:16:35,910 these other angles of evacuation 2680 02:16:41,720 --> 02:16:39,300 all potential evacuations you've got 2681 02:16:46,280 --> 02:16:41,730 people coming down that's important down 2682 02:16:49,730 --> 02:16:46,290 which is a facility that for years spent 2683 02:16:53,510 --> 02:16:49,740 researching mind-altering technologies 2684 02:16:55,730 --> 02:16:53,520 and you know when you put those pieces 2685 02:16:58,550 --> 02:16:55,740 together you realize that there are 2686 02:17:01,480 --> 02:16:58,560 aspects to Rendlesham that just simply 2687 02:17:05,890 --> 02:17:01,490 don't crop up in a lot of other cases 2688 02:17:08,690 --> 02:17:05,900 you know for example if you look it's 2689 02:17:11,510 --> 02:17:08,700 most UFO cases you know you don't have 2690 02:17:13,700 --> 02:17:11,520 bunches of people popping up saying well 2691 02:17:16,250 --> 02:17:13,710 there's actually a secret experiment but 2692 02:17:18,440 --> 02:17:16,260 you do with Rendlesham you don't have a 2693 02:17:22,610 --> 02:17:18,450 bunch of people popping up in relation 2694 02:17:26,090 --> 02:17:22,620 to UFO cases and said the port and down 2695 02:17:30,040 --> 02:17:26,100 turned up you know but we miss one you 2696 02:17:35,570 --> 02:17:30,050 do so that's why that's why I'm sort of 2697 02:17:39,580 --> 02:17:35,580 careful as to how I sort of look at all 2698 02:17:43,130 --> 02:17:39,590 the testimony when you're dealing with 2699 02:17:46,430 --> 02:17:43,140 agencies that working with hallucinogens 2700 02:17:48,950 --> 02:17:46,440 did you listen to did you listen to any 2701 02:17:53,150 --> 02:17:48,960 of the John Burroughs interviews he did 2702 02:17:55,370 --> 02:17:53,160 on theta block no oh you should have you 2703 02:17:59,050 --> 02:17:55,380 should have maybe you can do an addendum 2704 02:18:03,470 --> 02:17:59,060 to the book because I just remembered 2705 02:18:07,959 --> 02:18:03,480 John burrows said one thing that was 2706 02:18:10,730 --> 02:18:07,969 interesting that at the moment that 2707 02:18:13,100 --> 02:18:10,740 Penniston had approached I could be a 2708 02:18:15,950 --> 02:18:13,110 little bit off here I'm going with my 2709 02:18:18,140 --> 02:18:15,960 memory Nick which is a rock-and-roll 2710 02:18:19,820 --> 02:18:18,150 memory it's not the best okay so let's 2711 02:18:23,510 --> 02:18:19,830 listen let's do that first 2712 02:18:25,370 --> 02:18:23,520 but it's this I think he said because I 2713 02:18:29,600 --> 02:18:25,380 was trying to get this out of him that 2714 02:18:31,220 --> 02:18:29,610 as Penniston approached the craft and he 2715 02:18:33,650 --> 02:18:31,230 didn't want him to do it that you know 2716 02:18:37,640 --> 02:18:33,660 John didn't but Penniston was doing his 2717 02:18:42,140 --> 02:18:37,650 own thing that at that moment Burroughs 2718 02:18:46,040 --> 02:18:42,150 blacked out yeah yeah he blacked out he 2719 02:18:47,480 --> 02:18:46,050 came to and everything was over and had 2720 02:18:51,049 --> 02:18:47,490 concluded 2721 02:18:54,350 --> 02:18:51,059 so could that have been because of 2722 02:18:57,469 --> 02:18:54,360 something else that was was in the air 2723 02:18:59,750 --> 02:18:57,479 very interesting I just remembered that 2724 02:19:02,750 --> 02:18:59,760 aspect of it because I wanted John to 2725 02:19:05,150 --> 02:19:02,760 say hey I saw Penniston touch the craft 2726 02:19:07,430 --> 02:19:05,160 I saw him receive the download I saw the 2727 02:19:08,870 --> 02:19:07,440 symbols on the site you know and and no 2728 02:19:11,990 --> 02:19:08,880 that's not what happened 2729 02:19:16,610 --> 02:19:12,000 John had blanked out for I think he said 2730 02:19:18,410 --> 02:19:16,620 30 seconds or something well again you 2731 02:19:20,930 --> 02:19:18,420 know that's sort of like a really weird 2732 02:19:24,910 --> 02:19:20,940 a part of a story again that you don't 2733 02:19:28,459 --> 02:19:24,920 get in most most stories you know and 2734 02:19:32,839 --> 02:19:28,469 again I think Randall should be such a 2735 02:19:34,759 --> 02:19:32,849 unique story not just because of the 2736 02:19:39,080 --> 02:19:34,769 events I mean like I meant at the very 2737 02:19:41,690 --> 02:19:39,090 start of it you know since the 1930s the 2738 02:19:44,570 --> 02:19:41,700 whole area within 10 miles of Rendlesham 2739 02:19:47,419 --> 02:19:44,580 forest has been the locations of 2740 02:19:51,530 --> 02:19:47,429 multiple secret experiments that his art 2741 02:19:54,140 --> 02:19:51,540 committee the cobra miss radar programs 2742 02:19:54,650 --> 02:19:54,150 all of them less than 10 miles from the 2743 02:19:57,080 --> 02:19:54,660 forest 2744 02:20:00,320 --> 02:19:57,090 now that doesn't prove anything but what 2745 02:20:03,469 --> 02:20:00,330 it does show is that a lot of weird 2746 02:20:07,219 --> 02:20:03,479 stuff has gone down in and around the 2747 02:20:11,270 --> 02:20:07,229 Rendlesham forest area so you know I 2748 02:20:13,550 --> 02:20:11,280 think just using logic you know 2749 02:20:17,330 --> 02:20:13,560 demonstrates that we should at the very 2750 02:20:19,280 --> 02:20:17,340 least be open-minded to the idea well if 2751 02:20:21,350 --> 02:20:19,290 there are a bunch of experiments in and 2752 02:20:24,830 --> 02:20:21,360 around the area of Rendlesham forest 2753 02:20:28,490 --> 02:20:24,840 from the 1930s why couldn't they still 2754 02:20:30,410 --> 02:20:28,500 be going on in December 1980 yeah and I 2755 02:20:32,120 --> 02:20:30,420 know that right now Nick as we're 2756 02:20:33,950 --> 02:20:32,130 winding down to the end of the interview 2757 02:20:38,600 --> 02:20:33,960 but I want to get this last question in 2758 02:20:42,290 --> 02:20:38,610 which is this the conclusions that you 2759 02:20:45,530 --> 02:20:42,300 have come to in the book is is where you 2760 02:20:47,900 --> 02:20:45,540 are now with Rendlesham I get that was 2761 02:20:51,560 --> 02:20:47,910 there a period in the past 2762 02:20:55,040 --> 02:20:51,570 going back to 1984 when Jenny Randall's 2763 02:20:57,950 --> 02:20:55,050 book first came out what did you did you 2764 02:20:59,900 --> 02:20:57,960 have a belief that it was UFOs and 2765 02:21:02,000 --> 02:20:59,910 aliens that that 2766 02:21:06,381 --> 02:21:02,010 ended that night over those three nights 2767 02:21:11,720 --> 02:21:06,391 in 1980-81 and then your mind was 2768 02:21:14,480 --> 02:21:11,730 changed oh yeah I mean you know when I 2769 02:21:18,051 --> 02:21:14,490 read sky crash which came out in 1984 2770 02:21:22,720 --> 02:21:18,061 and Jenny Randall's his book from out of 2771 02:21:26,750 --> 02:21:22,730 the blue which came out in 91 or 92 and 2772 02:21:30,140 --> 02:21:26,760 Jenny did another book UFO landing I 2773 02:21:32,480 --> 02:21:30,150 think it was called and Georgina Brody's 2774 02:21:35,470 --> 02:21:32,490 book you know they or presented a lot of 2775 02:21:38,750 --> 02:21:35,480 really intriguing incredible material 2776 02:21:42,350 --> 02:21:38,760 some of which did go down the sort of 2777 02:21:44,710 --> 02:21:42,360 UFO angle but what's interesting is that 2778 02:21:48,740 --> 02:21:44,720 all of those books Georgina's book 2779 02:21:50,960 --> 02:21:48,750 journeys various books and even for 2780 02:21:53,690 --> 02:21:50,970 example Nick Pope in his book you know 2781 02:21:57,740 --> 02:21:53,700 Nick also addresses the secret 2782 02:21:59,750 --> 02:21:57,750 experiments angle in there and yes or 2783 02:22:03,020 --> 02:21:59,760 answer your question yeah I mean for 2784 02:22:06,710 --> 02:22:03,030 years I believed that aliens did come 2785 02:22:10,250 --> 02:22:06,720 down Rendlesham and aliens may have come 2786 02:22:12,740 --> 02:22:10,260 down at Rendlesham and if they did it 2787 02:22:15,770 --> 02:22:12,750 could only be a case that somebody 2788 02:22:19,511 --> 02:22:15,780 decided to target me and a bunch of 2789 02:22:22,400 --> 02:22:19,521 other people with a very intricate 2790 02:22:24,740 --> 02:22:22,410 alternative story but my argument is 2791 02:22:27,170 --> 02:22:24,750 well why do I do that why bring it up 2792 02:22:29,301 --> 02:22:27,180 and create another controversy where 2793 02:22:33,710 --> 02:22:29,311 they could just keep it buried but yeah 2794 02:22:38,060 --> 02:22:33,720 for years you know I thought it was like 2795 02:22:43,310 --> 02:22:38,070 the the UK equivalent to Roswell you 2796 02:22:45,140 --> 02:22:43,320 know for many people and but you know 2797 02:22:47,690 --> 02:22:45,150 that the fact that the more I looked 2798 02:22:51,710 --> 02:22:47,700 into it and the more I came around to 2799 02:22:53,150 --> 02:22:51,720 the idea of an experiment you know I 2800 02:22:55,460 --> 02:22:53,160 think like I said earlier what AM I'm 2801 02:22:58,790 --> 02:22:55,470 not gonna lie I'm gonna be honest can 2802 02:23:03,920 --> 02:22:58,800 say well yet my mind has changed which 2803 02:23:06,680 --> 02:23:03,930 it has yeah when that happens Nick were 2804 02:23:10,940 --> 02:23:06,690 you bummed out I mean we're like oh man 2805 02:23:14,590 --> 02:23:10,950 really you know you have to mostly be 2806 02:23:17,900 --> 02:23:14,600 affected somewhat well 2807 02:23:20,740 --> 02:23:17,910 it's hard to say really because I'm one 2808 02:23:23,030 --> 02:23:20,750 of these people who you know I write 2809 02:23:26,660 --> 02:23:23,040 like for example if you take like Jim 2810 02:23:29,690 --> 02:23:26,670 Jim Penniston he had he's it was his own 2811 02:23:34,250 --> 02:23:29,700 experience and extremely emotional 2812 02:23:37,670 --> 02:23:34,260 events but I'm someone detached who's 2813 02:23:41,480 --> 02:23:37,680 writes about it and when you're detached 2814 02:23:44,510 --> 02:23:41,490 rather than being the the witness or the 2815 02:23:47,180 --> 02:23:44,520 person involved if you're detached and 2816 02:23:50,330 --> 02:23:47,190 you're working from the perspective of a 2817 02:23:53,719 --> 02:23:50,340 writer I actually think you don't have 2818 02:23:56,810 --> 02:23:53,729 that kind of you know sort of bummed out 2819 02:23:59,780 --> 02:23:56,820 aspect because I don't at least because 2820 02:24:02,300 --> 02:23:59,790 I'm as I said I'm detached from the 2821 02:24:06,230 --> 02:24:02,310 story where the witnesses are obviously 2822 02:24:10,100 --> 02:24:06,240 you know not detached from the story so 2823 02:24:14,660 --> 02:24:10,110 for me it's all about getting the answer 2824 02:24:17,210 --> 02:24:14,670 and if it turns out that I'm right then 2825 02:24:20,180 --> 02:24:17,220 I'm right if I'm turns out I'm wrong and 2826 02:24:23,500 --> 02:24:20,190 I was deceived and manipulated then I 2827 02:24:26,390 --> 02:24:23,510 was deceived and manipulated but 2828 02:24:30,350 --> 02:24:26,400 hopefully would still mean we would get 2829 02:24:35,330 --> 02:24:30,360 some answers at least you know or we 2830 02:24:37,430 --> 02:24:35,340 continue to debate but but so now I'm 2831 02:24:38,810 --> 02:24:37,440 not really I'm not bummed out that I 2832 02:24:42,950 --> 02:24:38,820 don't think it was an extraterrestrial 2833 02:24:46,900 --> 02:24:42,960 any more I think you know the secret 2834 02:24:52,280 --> 02:24:46,910 experiment angle is arguably just as 2835 02:24:54,860 --> 02:24:52,290 controversial as the alien angle but but 2836 02:24:59,330 --> 02:24:54,870 like I said I mean how do we solve it 2837 02:25:01,550 --> 02:24:59,340 you know we can I mean II do you sort of 2838 02:25:05,450 --> 02:25:01,560 chatting all about on Facebook has a 2839 02:25:08,750 --> 02:25:05,460 bender in the last few days it's sort of 2840 02:25:12,500 --> 02:25:08,760 enlightening and fun and it goes on and 2841 02:25:16,400 --> 02:25:12,510 on and on but no headway is ever made 2842 02:25:19,520 --> 02:25:16,410 and we need to find a way in terms of 2843 02:25:22,570 --> 02:25:19,530 this case wherever he goes we need to 2844 02:25:26,020 --> 02:25:22,580 find more headway and more answers and 2845 02:25:29,470 --> 02:25:26,030 and that's the one thing I never 2846 02:25:33,070 --> 02:25:29,480 understand how we can do that yeah you 2847 02:25:36,251 --> 02:25:33,080 know and and we we just talked for two 2848 02:25:39,190 --> 02:25:36,261 hours and we we didn't bring up Project 2849 02:25:40,720 --> 02:25:39,200 Blue Beam and which obviously is 2850 02:25:43,660 --> 02:25:40,730 something that should have been part of 2851 02:25:46,961 --> 02:25:43,670 this conversation at some point but that 2852 02:25:50,200 --> 02:25:46,971 is another aspect of ufology that people 2853 02:25:52,301 --> 02:25:50,210 bring up all the time and if we are 2854 02:25:54,480 --> 02:25:52,311 talking about projections and Holograms 2855 02:25:58,120 --> 02:25:54,490 and other things in Rendlesham forest 2856 02:25:59,950 --> 02:25:58,130 you can't then to anybody else out there 2857 02:26:02,680 --> 02:25:59,960 that is going to talk about Project Blue 2858 02:26:04,961 --> 02:26:02,690 Beam say that that doesn't exist it's 2859 02:26:08,921 --> 02:26:04,971 either you can't have it both ways can 2860 02:26:10,540 --> 02:26:08,931 you well I mean in one sense she can 2861 02:26:13,511 --> 02:26:10,550 because I mean what we're talking about 2862 02:26:14,860 --> 02:26:13,521 if it was an experiment in Rendlesham 2863 02:26:17,320 --> 02:26:14,870 forest we're talking about something 2864 02:26:19,360 --> 02:26:17,330 that was relatively small you know I 2865 02:26:21,400 --> 02:26:19,370 mean I don't really buy into the Blue 2866 02:26:26,020 --> 02:26:21,410 Beam stuff because it talks about you 2867 02:26:28,720 --> 02:26:26,030 know like a worldwide kind of ruse you 2868 02:26:31,330 --> 02:26:28,730 know with projected images all around 2869 02:26:33,730 --> 02:26:31,340 the planet of different gods and deities 2870 02:26:36,280 --> 02:26:33,740 and everything I mean that's very 2871 02:26:41,171 --> 02:26:36,290 difficult that's gonna be very different 2872 02:26:44,560 --> 02:26:41,181 I should say too you know an extremely 2873 02:26:46,990 --> 02:26:44,570 small experiment in English woods 2874 02:26:50,080 --> 02:26:47,000 yeah but the technology would basically 2875 02:26:51,461 --> 02:26:50,090 be the same is ROM going yeah yeah I 2876 02:26:53,530 --> 02:26:51,471 would imagine that would have to yeah 2877 02:26:57,461 --> 02:26:53,540 that would be kind of similar in many 2878 02:27:00,461 --> 02:26:57,471 respects but you know it's it's just 2879 02:27:02,530 --> 02:27:00,471 it's one of the getting into the 2880 02:27:05,551 --> 02:27:02,540 Rendlesham issue is like getting into 2881 02:27:08,680 --> 02:27:05,561 Roswell it's like a snakes pit you know 2882 02:27:10,540 --> 02:27:08,690 it's where do you go with it yeah you 2883 02:27:13,270 --> 02:27:10,550 have to brace yourself you know when you 2884 02:27:15,790 --> 02:27:13,280 were a kid and you knew your mom was 2885 02:27:17,830 --> 02:27:15,800 about to crack you upside your head so 2886 02:27:19,690 --> 02:27:17,840 you had to do the brace you had to do 2887 02:27:21,710 --> 02:27:19,700 the brace you had to get ready for it 2888 02:27:25,470 --> 02:27:21,720 that's where you are right now 2889 02:27:27,690 --> 02:27:25,480 [Laughter] 2890 02:27:30,390 --> 02:27:27,700 I guess you know we'll just have to sort 2891 02:27:32,790 --> 02:27:30,400 of wait and when wait and see you know 2892 02:27:35,790 --> 02:27:32,800 where things develop I mean the one 2893 02:27:37,830 --> 02:27:35,800 thing I would say is that you know even 2894 02:27:40,410 --> 02:27:37,840 if it's one of my books that people 2895 02:27:44,881 --> 02:27:40,420 don't particularly enjoy and this is 2896 02:27:48,000 --> 02:27:44,891 sure to be one of them I always get 2897 02:27:49,950 --> 02:27:48,010 feedback you know and there's always a 2898 02:27:52,440 --> 02:27:49,960 lot of interesting feedback that 2899 02:27:55,591 --> 02:27:52,450 wouldn't have come out but I'm not 2900 02:28:00,930 --> 02:27:55,601 written the relevant book so you know 2901 02:28:03,180 --> 02:28:00,940 maybe new data will come forward maybe 2902 02:28:05,940 --> 02:28:03,190 it'll sort of push it down the same 2903 02:28:08,430 --> 02:28:05,950 avenue of the book or somebody might say 2904 02:28:10,710 --> 02:28:08,440 sorry Nick you know you were you were 2905 02:28:14,040 --> 02:28:10,720 deceived and here's the evidence you 2906 02:28:17,011 --> 02:28:14,050 know one of the things about Rendlesham 2907 02:28:19,500 --> 02:28:17,021 and UFOs in general is the surprise 2908 02:28:21,830 --> 02:28:19,510 factor you know there's still stuff 2909 02:28:24,600 --> 02:28:21,840 still coming out in relation to 2910 02:28:28,110 --> 02:28:24,610 Rendlesham well you know Nick I don't 2911 02:28:30,690 --> 02:28:28,120 think you're scared to tighten up your 2912 02:28:36,000 --> 02:28:30,700 Doc Martins through I want that misfit 2913 02:28:38,761 --> 02:28:36,010 shirt and jump into the mosh pit spent 2914 02:28:41,700 --> 02:28:38,771 four days there about just ranting at 2915 02:28:43,440 --> 02:28:41,710 paper men ranting at me no that's all we 2916 02:28:47,190 --> 02:28:43,450 did we've answered it each other 2917 02:28:50,370 --> 02:28:47,200 and yeah I enjoy like a good online 2918 02:28:51,930 --> 02:28:50,380 fight it's fun yeah it's fun I get you 2919 02:28:57,330 --> 02:28:51,940 know what I'm gonna be straight with you 2920 02:29:02,850 --> 02:28:57,340 Nick I get a day at least one Rendlesham 2921 02:29:04,320 --> 02:29:02,860 email every single day so there you go 2922 02:29:06,301 --> 02:29:04,330 thank you so much Nick what a great 2923 02:29:08,580 --> 02:29:06,311 conversation man I I look forward to 2924 02:29:10,860 --> 02:29:08,590 seeing you out there again and we'll 2925 02:29:14,520 --> 02:29:10,870 break some bread and and shoot a brew 2926 02:29:18,180 --> 02:29:14,530 thank you so much all right Nick Redfern 2927 02:29:20,610 --> 02:29:18,190 again everybody the links for the new 2928 02:29:21,390 --> 02:29:20,620 book are right there at Jimmy Church 2929 02:29:24,301 --> 02:29:21,400 radio.com 2930 02:29:27,570 --> 02:29:24,311 and you do need to go and check out Nick 2931 02:29:30,150 --> 02:29:27,580 Redford forty and blogspot com we have 2932 02:29:32,280 --> 02:29:30,160 those links up on our website too as 2933 02:29:34,320 --> 02:29:32,290 well and like I said a nick knows this 2934 02:29:37,121 --> 02:29:34,330 I've admitted it to him many times over 2935 02:29:39,791 --> 02:29:37,131 the years it's where I go to steal my 2936 02:29:41,501 --> 02:29:39,801 to material this is fade to black I'll 2937 02:29:44,051 --> 02:29:41,511 be right back after this short break 2938 02:29:46,061 --> 02:29:44,061 I'll open up the phone lines and let's 2939 02:29:48,920 --> 02:29:46,071 see what everybody has to say stay with 2940 02:30:07,791 --> 02:29:48,930 me I'll be right back 2941 02:30:11,011 --> 02:30:07,801 [Music] 2942 02:30:16,411 --> 02:30:11,021 and you are listening to my boy Jimmy 2943 02:30:19,680 --> 02:30:16,421 Church on Jimmy Church radio.com this my 2944 02:30:22,080 --> 02:30:19,690 popular opinion reading a book will not 2945 02:30:26,769 --> 02:30:22,090 make you smarter 2946 02:30:28,599 --> 02:30:26,779 but listening to Jimmy Church will this 2947 02:30:31,269 --> 02:30:28,609 is Jimmy Church of fade to black and I 2948 02:30:33,729 --> 02:30:31,279 take life change T supplements every 2949 02:30:36,340 --> 02:30:33,739 single day it's what I do 2950 02:30:41,920 --> 02:30:36,350 click on their banner ad Jimmy Church 2951 02:30:44,170 --> 02:30:41,930 radio calm when you take the beams from 2952 02:30:46,750 --> 02:30:44,180 Central America with dashes of 2953 02:30:49,149 --> 02:30:46,760 Indonesian and African mixed in and then 2954 02:30:52,000 --> 02:30:49,159 roasted to the dark side of fade to 2955 02:30:55,149 --> 02:30:52,010 black you create the ultimate brew of 2956 02:30:58,899 --> 02:30:55,159 Fringe introducing the fade to black 2957 02:31:01,510 --> 02:30:58,909 blend from River moon coffee yes River 2958 02:31:04,510 --> 02:31:01,520 moons darkest customized roast was 2959 02:31:07,510 --> 02:31:04,520 created for the love of fade to black 2960 02:31:10,210 --> 02:31:07,520 the alchemy of masterful roasting and 2961 02:31:13,779 --> 02:31:10,220 smoking the beans is in every sip of 2962 02:31:16,779 --> 02:31:13,789 this full-bodied dark Java I need my 2963 02:31:18,639 --> 02:31:16,789 coffee doc deep with distinct 2964 02:31:21,819 --> 02:31:18,649 bittersweet chocolate highlights just 2965 02:31:24,250 --> 02:31:21,829 like the bunker leaning further into the 2966 02:31:27,519 --> 02:31:24,260 darkness of the roast is fade to black 2967 02:31:29,170 --> 02:31:27,529 blend from River moon coffee just click 2968 02:31:32,469 --> 02:31:29,180 on the banner at Jimmy Church radio.com 2969 02:31:39,240 --> 02:31:32,479 and use the promo code F to B blend for 2970 02:31:42,510 --> 02:31:40,950 hello my name is Billy Carson and I'm a 2971 02:31:45,090 --> 02:31:42,520 best-selling author and the founder of 2972 02:31:46,920 --> 02:31:45,100 forbidden knowledge TV together with my 2973 02:31:49,200 --> 02:31:46,930 team we have built a all new conscious 2974 02:31:51,060 --> 02:31:49,210 prima TV platform designed with every 2975 02:31:52,710 --> 02:31:51,070 family member in mind if you have ever 2976 02:31:54,030 --> 02:31:52,720 wanted to travel the world and attend 2977 02:31:55,920 --> 02:31:54,040 lectures and workshops from your 2978 02:31:56,670 --> 02:31:55,930 favorite speakers we were able to look 2979 02:31:59,340 --> 02:31:56,680 no further 2980 02:32:01,320 --> 02:31:59,350 forbidden knowledge dot TV there are 2981 02:32:03,180 --> 02:32:01,330 dozens of workshops and lectures from 2982 02:32:05,250 --> 02:32:03,190 speakers you know and love we have also 2983 02:32:07,110 --> 02:32:05,260 include an amazing categories to ensure 2984 02:32:09,570 --> 02:32:07,120 that your consciousness is entertained 2985 02:32:11,790 --> 02:32:09,580 and elevating on a daily basis amazing 2986 02:32:14,310 --> 02:32:11,800 interviews ancient history essential 2987 02:32:16,740 --> 02:32:14,320 knowledge wisdom teachings documentaries 2988 02:32:19,110 --> 02:32:16,750 conspiracies mysteries health and 2989 02:32:21,480 --> 02:32:19,120 fitness conscious cooking meditations 2990 02:32:23,670 --> 02:32:21,490 finance yoga and so much more to start 2991 02:32:25,610 --> 02:32:23,680 your free trial on any mobile device or 2992 02:32:28,680 --> 02:32:25,620 computer surf their forbidden knowledge 2993 02:32:30,660 --> 02:32:28,690 TV that's forbidden knowledge with the 2994 02:32:34,050 --> 02:32:30,670 number-four forbidden knowledge 2995 02:32:37,860 --> 02:32:34,060 TV again visit forbidden knowledge TV 2996 02:32:40,500 --> 02:32:37,870 today are you intrigued by paranormal 2997 02:32:44,130 --> 02:32:40,510 talk radio you love the new paranormal 2998 02:32:45,870 --> 02:32:44,140 radio app from torque stream live you'll 2999 02:32:49,050 --> 02:32:45,880 find a great selection of talk shows 3000 02:32:51,750 --> 02:32:49,060 covering UFOs ghosts strange phenomena 3001 02:32:53,940 --> 02:32:51,760 and much more download the paranormal 3002 02:32:55,650 --> 02:32:53,950 radio app now and start listening to the 3003 02:32:57,450 --> 02:32:55,660 very best in paranormal talk 3004 02:32:59,430 --> 02:32:57,460 entertainment including the network 3005 02:33:02,340 --> 02:32:59,440 you're listening to right now the 3006 02:33:11,890 --> 02:33:02,350 paranormal radio app free in Google Play 3007 02:33:24,270 --> 02:33:15,590 it's not a lifestyle we chose we were 3008 02:33:29,350 --> 02:33:28,810 this is KJ CR Jimmy search radio jockey 3009 02:33:52,070 --> 02:33:29,360 ha 3010 02:33:56,210 --> 02:33:52,080 man oh man Nick Redfern and I've read 3011 02:33:58,490 --> 02:33:56,220 the book you need to check it out and we 3012 02:34:02,389 --> 02:33:58,500 all know something happened out in 3013 02:34:06,740 --> 02:34:02,399 Rendlesham forest what it was and all of 3014 02:34:08,210 --> 02:34:06,750 these different aspects and have have 3015 02:34:11,389 --> 02:34:08,220 been put out there for years 3016 02:34:15,830 --> 02:34:11,399 and it's a very difficult thing to wade 3017 02:34:18,350 --> 02:34:15,840 through and listening to Nick tonight 3018 02:34:20,960 --> 02:34:18,360 this is I think this is what is most 3019 02:34:25,520 --> 02:34:20,970 important here he said something as 3020 02:34:28,100 --> 02:34:25,530 significant as it gets everybody that 3021 02:34:34,160 --> 02:34:28,110 was involved with Rendlesham has their 3022 02:34:37,310 --> 02:34:34,170 own individual take everyone you need to 3023 02:34:40,700 --> 02:34:37,320 think about that and and and what do we 3024 02:34:43,130 --> 02:34:40,710 do I'm going to say something else that 3025 02:34:46,130 --> 02:34:43,140 I've said before in the show but when it 3026 02:34:49,040 --> 02:34:46,140 comes to John Burroughs and I hope that 3027 02:34:54,110 --> 02:34:49,050 John is listening tonight John Burroughs 3028 02:34:57,620 --> 02:34:54,120 and his many many shows here but we've 3029 02:35:00,020 --> 02:34:57,630 done two or three specific Rendlesham 3030 02:35:02,750 --> 02:35:00,030 shows and I think that the last one that 3031 02:35:08,710 --> 02:35:02,760 we did together on Rendlesham was one of 3032 02:35:12,200 --> 02:35:08,720 the best and listening to him recount 3033 02:35:16,090 --> 02:35:12,210 through direct eyewitness testimony from 3034 02:35:18,350 --> 02:35:16,100 somebody who was absolutely there is an 3035 02:35:20,450 --> 02:35:18,360 unbelievably mind-blowing thing to go 3036 02:35:24,350 --> 02:35:20,460 through not only for me but for you as 3037 02:35:28,940 --> 02:35:24,360 as a member of the audience and I know 3038 02:35:33,410 --> 02:35:28,950 that John and everybody there too as 3039 02:35:37,850 --> 02:35:33,420 well have gone through a profound 3040 02:35:40,070 --> 02:35:37,860 experience one that I can't relate to 3041 02:35:43,550 --> 02:35:40,080 I've seen things I've gone through 3042 02:35:45,860 --> 02:35:43,560 things but nothing like that and we have 3043 02:35:49,219 --> 02:35:45,870 to listen to him in Penniston and halt 3044 02:35:52,670 --> 02:35:49,229 and others that were there because they 3045 02:35:54,040 --> 02:35:52,680 are still with us this is a modern event 3046 02:35:56,230 --> 02:35:54,050 and some 3047 02:35:59,290 --> 02:35:56,240 happened in in the forest in between 3048 02:36:04,200 --> 02:35:59,300 Woodbridge and Bentwaters no question 3049 02:36:07,630 --> 02:36:04,210 about that and this this twist on on 3050 02:36:10,120 --> 02:36:07,640 Rendlesham is an interesting one and how 3051 02:36:12,460 --> 02:36:10,130 many times do I have to say it we have 3052 02:36:14,230 --> 02:36:12,470 to push all of our chips into the middle 3053 02:36:17,950 --> 02:36:14,240 of the table we have to we have to 3054 02:36:21,280 --> 02:36:17,960 listen to everything we have to we 3055 02:36:24,550 --> 02:36:21,290 absolutely have to so I've opened up the 3056 02:36:27,340 --> 02:36:24,560 phone lines seven four seven two two 3057 02:36:30,870 --> 02:36:27,350 eight two zero five one seven four seven 3058 02:36:35,490 --> 02:36:30,880 two two eight two zero five one and 3059 02:36:38,440 --> 02:36:35,500 there is the I think that the the most 3060 02:36:42,639 --> 02:36:38,450 profound takeaway from not only this 3061 02:36:49,330 --> 02:36:42,649 show tonight with Nick but his book is 3062 02:36:53,849 --> 02:36:49,340 this all of us have come to conclusions 3063 02:36:58,300 --> 02:36:53,859 about Rendlesham and it's very hard to 3064 02:37:01,480 --> 02:36:58,310 get off of where we are at it's very 3065 02:37:03,389 --> 02:37:01,490 hard it's very hard it's very hard to 3066 02:37:09,070 --> 02:37:03,399 convince somebody and that includes 3067 02:37:12,160 --> 02:37:09,080 convincing me okay it's it's hard and a 3068 02:37:16,120 --> 02:37:12,170 lot of the things that we base Rendell's 3069 02:37:18,960 --> 02:37:16,130 him on and around is the other 3070 02:37:23,590 --> 02:37:18,970 information that has come to us 3071 02:37:27,429 --> 02:37:23,600 secondhand third-hand fourth hand that's 3072 02:37:30,700 --> 02:37:27,439 the way that it is okay we need to go 3073 02:37:33,270 --> 02:37:30,710 back and and and look at all of the 3074 02:37:36,190 --> 02:37:33,280 evidence and all of the direct stuff 3075 02:37:39,910 --> 02:37:36,200 that's that's what is most important 3076 02:37:42,400 --> 02:37:39,920 here getting off of something that we 3077 02:37:45,490 --> 02:37:42,410 have been trusting and I keep using the 3078 02:37:48,099 --> 02:37:45,500 word Dogma which is things that have 3079 02:37:51,630 --> 02:37:48,109 been put out there for so long that now 3080 02:37:54,639 --> 02:37:51,640 it's established right that it is 3081 02:37:57,340 --> 02:37:54,649 established and that is again something 3082 02:38:01,480 --> 02:37:57,350 that is is it's difficult to do in any 3083 02:38:03,250 --> 02:38:01,490 aspect of life any aspect of it any act 3084 02:38:05,320 --> 02:38:03,260 no no matter what it is and I don't care 3085 02:38:07,490 --> 02:38:05,330 if we're talking about radio controlled 3086 02:38:13,700 --> 02:38:07,500 airplanes boxing the MB 3087 02:38:15,950 --> 02:38:13,710 ufology politics religion history it's 3088 02:38:18,500 --> 02:38:15,960 it's a very very difficult thing because 3089 02:38:21,349 --> 02:38:18,510 once you have read it over and over 3090 02:38:25,190 --> 02:38:21,359 again it becomes established as fact and 3091 02:38:28,969 --> 02:38:25,200 that's the truth dogma is tough man 3092 02:38:33,170 --> 02:38:28,979 it is tough okay so with that let's 3093 02:38:33,559 --> 02:38:33,180 let's go to the phones and and let's see 3094 02:38:36,139 --> 02:38:33,569 here 3095 02:38:40,940 --> 02:38:36,149 let's do this I'm gonna do that and now 3096 02:38:42,260 --> 02:38:40,950 I'm just going to go in order here we go 3097 02:38:46,340 --> 02:38:42,270 hi you're live on fader black who's 3098 02:38:53,990 --> 02:38:46,350 calling hi Jenny its Deb hi Deb how are 3099 02:38:55,940 --> 02:38:54,000 you intrigued yeah completely so what 3100 02:38:58,639 --> 02:38:55,950 are you intrigued about I know that you 3101 02:39:00,229 --> 02:38:58,649 know Deb you've been following you 3102 02:39:01,639 --> 02:39:00,239 follow ji for a long time you've been a 3103 02:39:04,969 --> 02:39:01,649 part of the show you've listened to 3104 02:39:07,070 --> 02:39:04,979 nearly every show every guest this is a 3105 02:39:10,190 --> 02:39:07,080 subject that has been covered many many 3106 02:39:12,940 --> 02:39:10,200 times and like I said I know that you've 3107 02:39:15,530 --> 02:39:12,950 got your certain ways of looking at 3108 02:39:18,910 --> 02:39:15,540 Rendlesham then you listen to a show 3109 02:39:22,460 --> 02:39:18,920 like tonight so how did it affect you 3110 02:39:26,200 --> 02:39:22,470 okay so first of all let me just clear 3111 02:39:30,280 --> 02:39:26,210 the air because I tweeted a lot of stuff 3112 02:39:33,710 --> 02:39:30,290 I'm time to go to Steven Greer and 3113 02:39:35,179 --> 02:39:33,720 seeing that it's I mean don't forget 3114 02:39:37,010 --> 02:39:35,189 you're talking to the person who thinks 3115 02:39:40,790 --> 02:39:37,020 there's a military base under skinwalker 3116 02:39:43,040 --> 02:39:40,800 okay it's possible so it's totally 3117 02:39:45,229 --> 02:39:43,050 possible in my mind that this whole 3118 02:39:47,420 --> 02:39:45,239 thing could have been a military thing 3119 02:39:49,580 --> 02:39:47,430 like he said to test those people use 3120 02:39:51,250 --> 02:39:49,590 them as guinea pigs I get all of that I 3121 02:39:53,690 --> 02:39:51,260 understand the significance of 3122 02:39:55,969 --> 02:39:53,700 developing this war these things for 3123 02:39:57,200 --> 02:39:55,979 warfare that craft could have been a 3124 02:39:59,300 --> 02:39:57,210 military craft 3125 02:40:01,580 --> 02:39:59,310 maybe the irradiation maybe he really 3126 02:40:03,290 --> 02:40:01,590 did touch it and it made him so sick all 3127 02:40:05,540 --> 02:40:03,300 those years and it was a real physical 3128 02:40:07,070 --> 02:40:05,550 experience I totally get that all could 3129 02:40:09,290 --> 02:40:07,080 have been possible maybe that's what 3130 02:40:10,729 --> 02:40:09,300 that's what happened there's just two 3131 02:40:12,889 --> 02:40:10,739 pieces of this that I have a problem 3132 02:40:15,229 --> 02:40:12,899 with and you asked exactly the two 3133 02:40:16,760 --> 02:40:15,239 questions I wanted you to ask Jimmy you 3134 02:40:19,880 --> 02:40:16,770 said will win so when they looked over 3135 02:40:20,900 --> 02:40:19,890 that hill you know halt and Penniston 3136 02:40:23,450 --> 02:40:20,910 and they saw the crowd 3137 02:40:25,370 --> 02:40:23,460 and then you know Penniston went towards 3138 02:40:27,020 --> 02:40:25,380 it what is it that you're saying that 3139 02:40:28,610 --> 02:40:27,030 they saw did you say are you saying that 3140 02:40:30,139 --> 02:40:28,620 it was a military craft and he just 3141 02:40:31,880 --> 02:40:30,149 pivoted off it went back to the 3142 02:40:34,130 --> 02:40:31,890 hallucinogenic point and didn't answer 3143 02:40:36,320 --> 02:40:34,140 the question so have a problem with that 3144 02:40:42,230 --> 02:40:36,330 and then the other thing that bothers me 3145 02:40:43,880 --> 02:40:42,240 is discounting peniston's experience I'd 3146 02:40:46,610 --> 02:40:43,890 saying you know well he was just 3147 02:40:48,440 --> 02:40:46,620 probably breathing in LSD fumes and so 3148 02:40:50,660 --> 02:40:48,450 he didn't physically touch the craft it 3149 02:40:54,080 --> 02:40:50,670 didn't you know whatever made him sick 3150 02:40:55,850 --> 02:40:54,090 didn't really matter or I mean he didn't 3151 02:40:58,310 --> 02:40:55,860 say that and I haven't read his book so 3152 02:41:00,590 --> 02:40:58,320 not to discount what Nick saying but I 3153 02:41:05,030 --> 02:41:00,600 felt like peniston's experience with 3154 02:41:06,740 --> 02:41:05,040 being sidestepped or discounted and I 3155 02:41:08,660 --> 02:41:06,750 didn't like that part of it that part of 3156 02:41:11,690 --> 02:41:08,670 it upset me a bit because I have 3157 02:41:13,700 --> 02:41:11,700 followed extensively over the years what 3158 02:41:15,500 --> 02:41:13,710 Jim Penniston has said and how this 3159 02:41:17,810 --> 02:41:15,510 affected him and his testimony at the 3160 02:41:19,490 --> 02:41:17,820 citizens hearing and it convinced those 3161 02:41:21,410 --> 02:41:19,500 congressional people they got involved 3162 02:41:23,330 --> 02:41:21,420 in guards medical records pooled because 3163 02:41:24,950 --> 02:41:23,340 they had been covering them up so that's 3164 02:41:27,440 --> 02:41:24,960 the PISA that's the two pieces I have a 3165 02:41:29,360 --> 02:41:27,450 problem with yeah and well and I think 3166 02:41:31,400 --> 02:41:29,370 that even though I did ask those 3167 02:41:39,860 --> 02:41:31,410 questions directly of Nick I don't think 3168 02:41:42,560 --> 02:41:39,870 that Nick can answer those I don't think 3169 02:41:46,550 --> 02:41:42,570 that's okay but I don't think that's the 3170 02:41:49,790 --> 02:41:46,560 point I think that the point is that not 3171 02:41:56,060 --> 02:41:49,800 only can he not answer them but if we 3172 02:41:59,179 --> 02:41:56,070 pull into this aspect of holographic 3173 02:42:01,639 --> 02:41:59,189 projections and what was it that burrows 3174 02:42:04,429 --> 02:42:01,649 and Penniston saw from the ridge as they 3175 02:42:09,440 --> 02:42:04,439 peeked over the top of the ridge these 3176 02:42:12,860 --> 02:42:09,450 are parts of the theory presented here 3177 02:42:15,050 --> 02:42:12,870 by Nick that he knew he knew people are 3178 02:42:18,139 --> 02:42:15,060 going to come at him and go well wait a 3179 02:42:20,690 --> 02:42:18,149 minute here so I understand that part of 3180 02:42:22,520 --> 02:42:20,700 it and I asked that question directly to 3181 02:42:24,730 --> 02:42:22,530 Nick which is you know you've got 3182 02:42:28,070 --> 02:42:24,740 challenges in front of you because 3183 02:42:31,280 --> 02:42:28,080 everybody knows so much detail about 3184 02:42:33,620 --> 02:42:31,290 Rendlesham excuse me if you're going to 3185 02:42:33,961 --> 02:42:33,630 present this people are going to come at 3186 02:42:36,751 --> 02:42:33,971 you 3187 02:42:39,301 --> 02:42:36,761 they've got a long list of stuff and he 3188 02:42:41,761 --> 02:42:39,311 said well you know I I realize that and 3189 02:42:43,831 --> 02:42:41,771 I just have to be prepared for it it's 3190 02:42:45,990 --> 02:42:43,841 it's it's going to be a challenge and 3191 02:42:47,551 --> 02:42:46,000 that's and that I think that's the way 3192 02:42:50,190 --> 02:42:47,561 that we have to look at it Nick's not 3193 02:42:52,110 --> 02:42:50,200 Nick's not a dumb person he's very smart 3194 02:42:56,930 --> 02:42:52,120 he's very intelligent and if you're 3195 02:42:58,980 --> 02:42:56,940 gonna go and present an idea of not only 3196 02:43:00,961 --> 02:42:58,990 holographic projections and the 3197 02:43:04,501 --> 02:43:00,971 government experiment and the lucinda 3198 02:43:08,161 --> 02:43:04,511 genic drugs and all of this was done by 3199 02:43:11,371 --> 02:43:08,171 design you are going to have people come 3200 02:43:13,591 --> 02:43:11,381 at you and debunk and and be skeptical 3201 02:43:15,720 --> 02:43:13,601 about all of this and I think he 3202 02:43:17,610 --> 02:43:15,730 understands that Deb I really do oh I 3203 02:43:20,100 --> 02:43:17,620 think he does too I can come up with an 3204 02:43:23,131 --> 02:43:20,110 answer to the craft if I were him and I 3205 02:43:24,990 --> 02:43:23,141 were trying to say it was a projection I 3206 02:43:28,261 --> 02:43:25,000 would say well it was a physical it was 3207 02:43:30,030 --> 02:43:28,271 a physical metal craft there that had 3208 02:43:32,251 --> 02:43:30,040 you know radiation or whatever but they 3209 02:43:34,711 --> 02:43:32,261 projected a hologram on top of it and 3210 02:43:36,871 --> 02:43:34,721 that's why Jim saw it looking a certain 3211 02:43:38,700 --> 02:43:36,881 way or saw symbols on it because that 3212 02:43:41,100 --> 02:43:38,710 was the holographic part I mean I could 3213 02:43:43,320 --> 02:43:41,110 come up with a better explanation of 3214 02:43:44,430 --> 02:43:43,330 what it really was than what he answered 3215 02:43:48,751 --> 02:43:44,440 and I guess that's the part that 3216 02:43:50,610 --> 02:43:48,761 frustrates me yeah read the book the 3217 02:43:53,730 --> 02:43:50,620 books a fascinating read I'm telling you 3218 02:43:55,230 --> 02:43:53,740 right now read the book yeah I don't 3219 02:43:56,700 --> 02:43:55,240 want to give anything away I can't do 3220 02:43:59,940 --> 02:43:56,710 that I want everybody to go read the 3221 02:44:04,051 --> 02:43:59,950 book it's it's really it's really really 3222 02:44:08,461 --> 02:44:04,061 good I'm just saying that it's not about 3223 02:44:10,230 --> 02:44:08,471 the book doesn't approach you know 3224 02:44:12,450 --> 02:44:10,240 direct interviews with Burroughs and 3225 02:44:14,280 --> 02:44:12,460 Penniston and halt doesn't take that 3226 02:44:16,770 --> 02:44:14,290 approach takes another approach with 3227 02:44:19,320 --> 02:44:16,780 other people that may or may not have 3228 02:44:21,301 --> 02:44:19,330 been involved so that that's all I'm 3229 02:44:23,850 --> 02:44:21,311 going to say at this point but yeah it's 3230 02:44:27,150 --> 02:44:23,860 it's a really fascinating read and like 3231 02:44:30,570 --> 02:44:27,160 I said just pushing it's just pushing 3232 02:44:33,030 --> 02:44:30,580 another idea out there so we can discuss 3233 02:44:36,511 --> 02:44:33,040 this and I meant this earlier Deb when I 3234 02:44:39,360 --> 02:44:36,521 said it's all of these discussions 3235 02:44:42,600 --> 02:44:39,370 whether it's a government experiment or 3236 02:44:45,511 --> 02:44:42,610 et's with Rendlesham or any other case 3237 02:44:46,090 --> 02:44:45,521 you're never gonna get to the bottom of 3238 02:44:53,949 --> 02:44:46,100 it 3239 02:44:58,469 --> 02:44:53,959 are every case is so there you go thank 3240 02:45:05,199 --> 02:44:58,479 you so much I'll see you tomorrow night 3241 02:45:10,349 --> 02:45:05,209 okay thank you thank you so much Deb 3242 02:45:12,790 --> 02:45:10,359 that's Debra Mentos calling from 3243 02:45:14,109 --> 02:45:12,800 Sacramento let's go back to the phones 3244 02:45:19,719 --> 02:45:14,119 how you live on fade to black who's 3245 02:45:25,719 --> 02:45:19,729 calling you're live oh okay oh that's my 3246 02:45:29,859 --> 02:45:25,729 bad hold on you're live okay you got to 3247 02:45:33,819 --> 02:45:29,869 turn me down in the background can't do 3248 02:45:36,069 --> 02:45:33,829 this you got to be ready when I pick up 3249 02:45:37,960 --> 02:45:36,079 the phone oh man sorry about that 3250 02:45:45,760 --> 02:45:37,970 everybody hi you're live on fade to 3251 02:45:49,569 --> 02:45:45,770 black who's calling you're live well yes 3252 02:45:50,979 --> 02:45:49,579 you're live this is Josh in California 3253 02:45:52,599 --> 02:45:50,989 how are you doing I'm doing good Josh 3254 02:45:55,050 --> 02:45:52,609 what's on your mind what do you think 3255 02:45:59,439 --> 02:45:55,060 about that conversation with Nick I 3256 02:46:01,449 --> 02:45:59,449 thought it was awesome actually I'm it's 3257 02:46:03,670 --> 02:46:01,459 surprising that more people aren't tuned 3258 02:46:06,399 --> 02:46:03,680 into this aspect of the u.s. follow G 3259 02:46:07,869 --> 02:46:06,409 and the whole UFO movement and you know 3260 02:46:10,840 --> 02:46:07,879 just all the information that's out 3261 02:46:12,250 --> 02:46:10,850 there because yeah I just thought I was 3262 02:46:14,949 --> 02:46:12,260 I was blown away I thought it was 3263 02:46:17,019 --> 02:46:14,959 awesome I am applying the book and I've 3264 02:46:20,019 --> 02:46:17,029 been writing about this recently in one 3265 02:46:24,130 --> 02:46:20,029 of my own books well see this is this is 3266 02:46:24,790 --> 02:46:24,140 the thing I'm glad that you have an open 3267 02:46:28,149 --> 02:46:24,800 mind 3268 02:46:31,449 --> 02:46:28,159 I do but still even for me 3269 02:46:33,760 --> 02:46:31,459 it's gonna take a load of stuff for me 3270 02:46:36,130 --> 02:46:33,770 to go off of the things that I've 3271 02:46:38,729 --> 02:46:36,140 already come to conclusions on but I'm 3272 02:46:42,159 --> 02:46:38,739 just like everybody else right it's 3273 02:46:44,909 --> 02:46:42,169 especially when it comes to UFOs it's 3274 02:46:48,819 --> 02:46:44,919 it's a difficult thing to do isn't it 3275 02:46:50,679 --> 02:46:48,829 well yeah I it took me 25 years actually 3276 02:46:53,710 --> 02:46:50,689 I've been studying for the last 30 years 3277 02:46:56,889 --> 02:46:53,720 and I've been deep into UFOs I've you 3278 02:46:59,019 --> 02:46:56,899 know met bill Cooper at a UFO convention 3279 02:46:59,770 --> 02:46:59,029 in 1990 and that's when I first got 3280 02:47:01,780 --> 02:46:59,780 really turned 3281 02:47:03,850 --> 02:47:01,790 and I just been studying for a long time 3282 02:47:05,980 --> 02:47:03,860 and you know I believed that there were 3283 02:47:07,720 --> 02:47:05,990 aliens on this planet I believe that the 3284 02:47:09,730 --> 02:47:07,730 government was covering it up I believed 3285 02:47:11,530 --> 02:47:09,740 in things like reptilians I believed in 3286 02:47:12,940 --> 02:47:11,540 a lot of the stuff as you know because 3287 02:47:14,650 --> 02:47:12,950 there were so many other people who 3288 02:47:16,660 --> 02:47:14,660 believed in it there were so many 3289 02:47:19,180 --> 02:47:16,670 different pieces of scattered what 3290 02:47:21,220 --> 02:47:19,190 appeared to be evidence everywhere so 3291 02:47:22,960 --> 02:47:21,230 yeah it wasn't until about just a few 3292 02:47:24,670 --> 02:47:22,970 years ago as I was really getting deep 3293 02:47:27,010 --> 02:47:24,680 into writing my own book that I finally 3294 02:47:30,610 --> 02:47:27,020 kind of felt like I snapped out of this 3295 02:47:33,730 --> 02:47:30,620 spell that I was in for this I have not 3296 02:47:35,620 --> 02:47:33,740 had not expelled some sort well I you 3297 02:47:40,420 --> 02:47:35,630 know I have seen things that I can 3298 02:47:45,000 --> 02:47:40,430 explain right I have absolutely 100% has 3299 02:47:47,020 --> 02:47:45,010 seen things that I I absolutely 100% 3300 02:47:51,040 --> 02:47:47,030 believe that they were not from this 3301 02:47:54,790 --> 02:47:51,050 earth okay all right that's it there are 3302 02:47:56,770 --> 02:47:54,800 other things out there that for me I 3303 02:47:59,620 --> 02:47:56,780 think people have witnessed things that 3304 02:48:02,200 --> 02:47:59,630 they can't explain and that's fine and 3305 02:48:06,340 --> 02:48:02,210 that's what brings them to you know our 3306 02:48:09,190 --> 02:48:06,350 community but it may not necessarily be 3307 02:48:12,160 --> 02:48:09,200 something extraterrestrial something 3308 02:48:15,430 --> 02:48:12,170 from off planet and then we go to 3309 02:48:18,640 --> 02:48:15,440 something like Rendlesham and nick 3310 02:48:20,200 --> 02:48:18,650 presents a very compelling argument in 3311 02:48:24,010 --> 02:48:20,210 this book there's no question about it 3312 02:48:28,120 --> 02:48:24,020 but if you go back to the halt tape the 3313 02:48:32,740 --> 02:48:28,130 tape the audio tape when he says it 3314 02:48:35,560 --> 02:48:32,750 looks like an eye winking at us well 3315 02:48:37,600 --> 02:48:35,570 hold on a minute here that doesn't sound 3316 02:48:41,170 --> 02:48:37,610 like something conventional of this 3317 02:48:44,320 --> 02:48:41,180 earth number one and then too after he 3318 02:48:47,860 --> 02:48:44,330 says that he says it looks like it's 3319 02:48:49,750 --> 02:48:47,870 dripping molten metal right do you 3320 02:48:53,920 --> 02:48:49,760 remember Hult saying that on the 3321 02:48:58,450 --> 02:48:53,930 audiotape and that it's it's moving 3322 02:49:02,080 --> 02:48:58,460 through the forest and winking at us and 3323 02:49:05,800 --> 02:49:02,090 it looks like a giant eyeball that that 3324 02:49:09,070 --> 02:49:05,810 is something that we have to really take 3325 02:49:11,470 --> 02:49:09,080 into account and try to digest what halt 3326 02:49:12,371 --> 02:49:11,480 is putting into words because that's 3327 02:49:14,741 --> 02:49:12,381 what he was seeing 3328 02:49:20,021 --> 02:49:14,751 that night and when I first heard that 3329 02:49:22,271 --> 02:49:20,031 back in 1995 with my own ears I came to 3330 02:49:24,581 --> 02:49:22,281 one conclusion that he's seeing an 3331 02:49:26,861 --> 02:49:24,591 extraordinary extraterrestrial event go 3332 02:49:29,621 --> 02:49:26,871 down in the forest I didn't think it was 3333 02:49:31,541 --> 02:49:29,631 anything but that I didn't think there 3334 02:49:35,021 --> 02:49:31,551 was anything traditional or terrestrial 3335 02:49:35,591 --> 02:49:35,031 I didn't and I'm still on that side of 3336 02:49:37,180 --> 02:49:35,601 the fence 3337 02:49:39,961 --> 02:49:37,190 even though nick has written a very 3338 02:49:43,151 --> 02:49:39,971 excellent book and forces me to think 3339 02:49:45,131 --> 02:49:43,161 that it is there's something else that 3340 02:49:49,151 --> 02:49:45,141 we need to consider and I'm okay with 3341 02:49:50,890 --> 02:49:49,161 that Josh yeah you know I think it's 3342 02:49:52,511 --> 02:49:50,900 definitely important to take that into 3343 02:49:54,611 --> 02:49:52,521 consideration and I do agree that 3344 02:49:58,481 --> 02:49:54,621 there's something else out there as well 3345 02:49:59,861 --> 02:49:58,491 I'm one of the things I found were many 3346 02:50:03,731 --> 02:49:59,871 references in the Rigveda 3347 02:50:07,151 --> 02:50:03,741 to to what seemed like celestial 3348 02:50:10,531 --> 02:50:07,161 vehicles and it was also connected with 3349 02:50:13,180 --> 02:50:10,541 the mushrooms back then and the soma 3350 02:50:15,251 --> 02:50:13,190 sacrifice that they were using and doing 3351 02:50:17,261 --> 02:50:15,261 and some of that seems to have been 3352 02:50:19,930 --> 02:50:17,271 picked up by the intelligence agencies 3353 02:50:23,680 --> 02:50:19,940 and it's being used within aspects of 3354 02:50:25,541 --> 02:50:23,690 MKULTRA and this ties in to the Nazis 3355 02:50:27,941 --> 02:50:25,551 that came over after World War Two and 3356 02:50:29,861 --> 02:50:27,951 Operation Paperclip but they were also 3357 02:50:32,321 --> 02:50:29,871 they didn't just bring the Flying Saucer 3358 02:50:34,811 --> 02:50:32,331 project over they were the ones who got 3359 02:50:36,671 --> 02:50:34,821 involved in the MKULTRA and the drug 3360 02:50:38,140 --> 02:50:36,681 experiments and I think that there were 3361 02:50:40,601 --> 02:50:38,150 some interesting things that happened 3362 02:50:44,021 --> 02:50:40,611 where they were they had some people 3363 02:50:46,151 --> 02:50:44,031 like and Rehab Buhari who wrote who was 3364 02:50:48,371 --> 02:50:46,161 brought in uri geller to the united 3365 02:50:50,761 --> 02:50:48,381 states for the first time and he 3366 02:50:54,371 --> 02:50:50,771 basically they work together to 3367 02:50:56,711 --> 02:50:54,381 manufacture a UFO phenomena that made it 3368 02:50:57,941 --> 02:50:56,721 look like yuri came out of a UFO and 3369 02:51:01,180 --> 02:50:57,951 that he was in contact with 3370 02:51:03,881 --> 02:51:01,190 extraterrestrials there was also another 3371 02:51:06,011 --> 02:51:03,891 fakery thing that occurred in his other 3372 02:51:08,470 --> 02:51:06,021 book the sacred mushroom that he had 3373 02:51:10,271 --> 02:51:08,480 written in about ten years before he had 3374 02:51:13,811 --> 02:51:10,281 written the book or 15 years before he 3375 02:51:15,101 --> 02:51:13,821 had written the book Yuri so Andrea had 3376 02:51:16,961 --> 02:51:15,111 written the book the sacred mushroom 3377 02:51:19,961 --> 02:51:16,971 because he was involved in some of the 3378 02:51:22,301 --> 02:51:19,971 MKULTRA experiments and he was also 3379 02:51:24,401 --> 02:51:22,311 involved with Uri Geller and some of the 3380 02:51:25,390 --> 02:51:24,411 getting America to believe in this idea 3381 02:51:27,390 --> 02:51:25,400 of 3382 02:51:31,511 --> 02:51:27,400 psychic phenomena that Yuri was 3383 02:51:33,190 --> 02:51:31,521 supposedly capable of doing so what it 3384 02:51:35,591 --> 02:51:33,200 seems like is they've taken the 3385 02:51:37,480 --> 02:51:35,601 psychedelic also there was a lot of 3386 02:51:40,150 --> 02:51:37,490 people but the hippies before they were 3387 02:51:41,860 --> 02:51:40,160 involved in the 60s because I'm one of 3388 02:51:44,081 --> 02:51:41,870 them basically but not that quite that 3389 02:51:46,091 --> 02:51:44,091 old but you know I've done a lot of 3390 02:51:49,001 --> 02:51:46,101 psychedelics in my life and one of the 3391 02:51:52,091 --> 02:51:49,011 things I found interesting was and Adam 3392 02:51:54,581 --> 02:51:52,101 you know rightly look recently in a Ford 3393 02:51:56,980 --> 02:51:54,591 on ski he talks about one of the cases 3394 02:51:58,930 --> 02:51:56,990 of Bernard Coakley who wrote a book 3395 02:52:01,450 --> 02:51:58,940 called hallucinogenic drugs and their 3396 02:52:04,480 --> 02:52:01,460 application to extrasensory perception 3397 02:52:08,081 --> 02:52:04,490 in 1962 well apparently Bernard was 3398 02:52:10,240 --> 02:52:08,091 attending the giant rock meetings that 3399 02:52:11,801 --> 02:52:10,250 were happening in California where 3400 02:52:14,261 --> 02:52:11,811 people were gathering and taking 3401 02:52:16,871 --> 02:52:14,271 mescaline acid psychedelics you know 3402 02:52:19,030 --> 02:52:16,881 peyote and mushrooms and you know I 3403 02:52:21,820 --> 02:52:19,040 think that the intelligence agencies had 3404 02:52:24,030 --> 02:52:21,830 noticed that like that perception had 3405 02:52:27,761 --> 02:52:24,040 allowed people to be able to see the 3406 02:52:31,211 --> 02:52:27,771 actual UFO is better and the real ones 3407 02:52:33,490 --> 02:52:31,221 and they had announced in the 1950s that 3408 02:52:36,131 --> 02:52:33,500 the airport Air Force had announced that 3409 02:52:39,131 --> 02:52:36,141 they had discovered that through radar 3410 02:52:41,261 --> 02:52:39,141 through some of that investigating that 3411 02:52:44,680 --> 02:52:41,271 was going on but they sense that there 3412 02:52:48,700 --> 02:52:44,690 were biological animals that lived in an 3413 02:52:50,410 --> 02:52:48,710 unseen infrared area in our own 3414 02:52:53,051 --> 02:52:50,420 atmosphere and that they were harmless 3415 02:52:55,450 --> 02:52:53,061 to us so it seems like they had figured 3416 02:52:58,900 --> 02:52:55,460 out between wilhelm reich work and 3417 02:53:01,570 --> 02:52:58,910 strange and trevor constable and they 3418 02:53:03,791 --> 02:53:01,580 had figured out what the UFO was that it 3419 02:53:06,041 --> 02:53:03,801 was a natural phenomena that was 3420 02:53:09,251 --> 02:53:06,051 existing in our atmosphere and then they 3421 02:53:12,720 --> 02:53:09,261 reengineering to a mind-control program 3422 02:53:16,690 --> 02:53:12,730 jerem contra to make people believe that 3423 02:53:18,310 --> 02:53:16,700 aliens were piloting the foreign saucers 3424 02:53:20,711 --> 02:53:18,320 that they were flying around with their 3425 02:53:23,131 --> 02:53:20,721 secret technologies and when people 3426 02:53:27,070 --> 02:53:23,141 would see the UFOs they could say it was 3427 02:53:29,680 --> 02:53:27,080 well they not see the flying saucer 3428 02:53:32,081 --> 02:53:29,690 technology or vice versa and that would 3429 02:53:34,421 --> 02:53:32,091 serve all of these purposes of keeping 3430 02:53:37,600 --> 02:53:34,431 that a technology secret and also 3431 02:53:38,990 --> 02:53:37,610 creating a new ancient alien type of 3432 02:53:40,460 --> 02:53:39,000 agenda of 3433 02:53:43,610 --> 02:53:40,470 making people you know replacing the 3434 02:53:45,650 --> 02:53:43,620 idea of God in the because it's dying 3435 02:53:47,990 --> 02:53:45,660 out in Christianity with a new idea and 3436 02:53:50,060 --> 02:53:48,000 belief in aliens I think that's what's 3437 02:53:53,980 --> 02:53:50,070 that's a lot about what's going on right 3438 02:53:59,030 --> 02:53:53,990 now yeah well and I think that is a very 3439 02:54:00,200 --> 02:53:59,040 simple idea to come up with to help what 3440 02:54:03,770 --> 02:54:00,210 was going on 3441 02:54:06,500 --> 02:54:03,780 in the the late 40s 50s and 60s well and 3442 02:54:08,660 --> 02:54:06,510 through today it's a very simple concept 3443 02:54:11,690 --> 02:54:08,670 to just push forward it's not 3444 02:54:13,940 --> 02:54:11,700 complicated and and I get that and I 3445 02:54:18,400 --> 02:54:13,950 understand that what that doesn't 3446 02:54:22,250 --> 02:54:18,410 explain is everything before 1900 3447 02:54:24,500 --> 02:54:22,260 everything before Kittyhawk every you 3448 02:54:26,840 --> 02:54:24,510 know that doesn't explain anything about 3449 02:54:30,200 --> 02:54:26,850 what was seen in the skies in the early 3450 02:54:33,050 --> 02:54:30,210 1800s 1716 others and then going back 3451 02:54:37,190 --> 02:54:33,060 thousands of years that only fixed the 3452 02:54:39,860 --> 02:54:37,200 modern the narrative of today so you 3453 02:54:45,350 --> 02:54:39,870 know when I think about and you go back 3454 02:54:48,170 --> 02:54:45,360 and you read I did I did a show a couple 3455 02:54:52,550 --> 02:54:48,180 of years ago where I went back and I 3456 02:54:55,820 --> 02:54:52,560 chronicled all of the ancient references 3457 02:54:59,120 --> 02:54:55,830 and it took me about a week 3458 02:55:03,230 --> 02:54:59,130 all the ancient references in history of 3459 02:55:07,130 --> 02:55:03,240 something being seen in the sky okay not 3460 02:55:11,270 --> 02:55:07,140 Birds something and I went back and I 3461 02:55:16,790 --> 02:55:11,280 found things in 400 BC 500 BC thousand 3462 02:55:20,600 --> 02:55:16,800 BC all the way up to I think I I went to 3463 02:55:23,270 --> 02:55:20,610 I stopped at the Year 1000 right I 3464 02:55:28,520 --> 02:55:23,280 didn't get into anything too modern the 3465 02:55:32,300 --> 02:55:28,530 list end was long number one but also 3466 02:55:35,200 --> 02:55:32,310 what was described by these different 3467 02:55:38,030 --> 02:55:35,210 historians in the past was complicated 3468 02:55:42,230 --> 02:55:38,040 they were having a very hard time 3469 02:55:46,610 --> 02:55:42,240 explaining what it was they were seeing 3470 02:55:48,380 --> 02:55:46,620 in the sky and that part of it we can go 3471 02:55:50,990 --> 02:55:48,390 into modern times and talk about 3472 02:55:52,040 --> 02:55:51,000 anomalies and and and things that I've 3473 02:55:54,500 --> 02:55:52,050 seen in other 3474 02:55:58,210 --> 02:55:54,510 that's one thing but when you go back to 3475 02:56:01,189 --> 02:55:58,220 before the invention of balloons 3476 02:56:03,109 --> 02:56:01,199 durables lighter-than-air craft and 3477 02:56:06,139 --> 02:56:03,119 certainly airplanes and helicopters and 3478 02:56:09,260 --> 02:56:06,149 rockets you get before that they didn't 3479 02:56:11,719 --> 02:56:09,270 have anything to relate it to they 3480 02:56:13,429 --> 02:56:11,729 didn't you know so how are they going to 3481 02:56:18,950 --> 02:56:13,439 describe what they're seeing in the 3482 02:56:21,639 --> 02:56:18,960 skies that part of it for me is is about 3483 02:56:25,160 --> 02:56:21,649 it's interesting of this aspect of 3484 02:56:27,740 --> 02:56:25,170 ufology and technology and visitation of 3485 02:56:29,960 --> 02:56:27,750 this earth than anything else that's out 3486 02:56:33,740 --> 02:56:29,970 there Josh and and these are the 3487 02:56:34,969 --> 02:56:33,750 conclusions that I've come to ok can I 3488 02:56:37,550 --> 02:56:34,979 add something to that 3489 02:56:39,290 --> 02:56:37,560 it's like if I could Jimmy and I cover a 3490 02:56:41,179 --> 02:56:39,300 lot of this in my book ancient 3491 02:56:42,740 --> 02:56:41,189 psyckadeli alien gods and mushroom 3492 02:56:44,479 --> 02:56:42,750 goddesses which which I still got to get 3493 02:56:46,429 --> 02:56:44,489 a copy to you by the way and before I 3494 02:56:50,450 --> 02:56:46,439 hang up please give me a way that I can 3495 02:56:53,000 --> 02:56:50,460 get mail a copy to you but I I cover 3496 02:56:55,279 --> 02:56:53,010 this and I talk about in several 3497 02:56:57,859 --> 02:56:55,289 instances throughout history how the 3498 02:57:02,420 --> 02:56:57,869 interaction of UFOs and the involvement 3499 02:57:03,769 --> 02:57:02,430 with mushrooms and it seems like one of 3500 02:57:06,679 --> 02:57:03,779 the things I found were there were 3501 02:57:09,620 --> 02:57:06,689 several instances in the early 70s where 3502 02:57:11,719 --> 02:57:09,630 UFOs were seen in backyards lights were 3503 02:57:13,189 --> 02:57:11,729 seen and the next morning or the next 3504 02:57:15,979 --> 02:57:13,199 day when the people went over to the 3505 02:57:20,599 --> 02:57:15,989 area this happened at least five or six 3506 02:57:23,599 --> 02:57:20,609 times between 1971 and 1976 and they 3507 02:57:25,040 --> 02:57:23,609 there was a burn mark a circle in the 3508 02:57:28,189 --> 02:57:25,050 ground from where it had landed 3509 02:57:31,670 --> 02:57:28,199 obviously but in that circle was growing 3510 02:57:33,380 --> 02:57:31,680 giant mushrooms and sometimes in one of 3511 02:57:35,149 --> 02:57:33,390 these cases it was in the desert where 3512 02:57:38,540 --> 02:57:35,159 they had never seen mushrooms growing 3513 02:57:41,660 --> 02:57:38,550 before and I've traced some very 3514 02:57:43,279 --> 02:57:41,670 interesting things in history that I go 3515 02:57:45,910 --> 02:57:43,289 through in the book that that are just 3516 02:57:49,609 --> 02:57:45,920 fascinating because there have been 3517 02:57:51,649 --> 02:57:49,619 abductions by cows and people that have 3518 02:57:54,410 --> 02:57:51,659 been recorded in different things but 3519 02:57:57,050 --> 02:57:54,420 one of the most fascinating aspects of 3520 02:58:01,099 --> 02:57:57,060 it is that they are tied into the 3521 02:58:03,889 --> 02:58:01,109 fairytales in the round the 17 and 3522 02:58:05,400 --> 02:58:03,899 1800's there were instances of them 3523 02:58:07,650 --> 02:58:05,410 discussing the fair 3524 02:58:10,320 --> 02:58:07,660 and saying that the fairies had taken 3525 02:58:12,870 --> 02:58:10,330 them up and then dropped them on like 3526 02:58:14,969 --> 02:58:12,880 the side of a mountain and in some of 3527 02:58:17,370 --> 02:58:14,979 the books on fairy tales where they're 3528 02:58:19,620 --> 02:58:17,380 clearly discussing mushrooms because 3529 02:58:21,540 --> 02:58:19,630 this is one of the the code words that's 3530 02:58:23,400 --> 02:58:21,550 always been there for mushrooms has been 3531 02:58:25,320 --> 02:58:23,410 the fairies because it's when you know 3532 02:58:28,620 --> 02:58:25,330 that's that is literally part of a 3533 02:58:31,139 --> 02:58:28,630 symbolism and they are discussing going 3534 02:58:33,480 --> 02:58:31,149 into the Otherworld with the fairies and 3535 02:58:35,460 --> 02:58:33,490 seeing the fairies and going into their 3536 02:58:37,410 --> 02:58:35,470 world but a lot of these instances are 3537 02:58:43,380 --> 02:58:37,420 mushrooms but they're talking about but 3538 02:58:46,020 --> 02:58:43,390 also yeah actually Josh I gotta jump in 3539 02:58:48,929 --> 02:58:46,030 because we're gonna be off the network 3540 02:58:52,020 --> 02:58:48,939 here in a minute just right Rita Rita at 3541 02:58:53,639 --> 02:58:52,030 Jimmy Church radio.com and she'll hits 3542 02:58:56,340 --> 02:58:53,649 you back with our mailing address and 3543 02:58:58,860 --> 02:58:56,350 we'll get that taken care of but yeah 3544 02:59:01,620 --> 02:58:58,870 absolutely fascinating aspect of all of 3545 02:59:04,080 --> 02:59:01,630 this and and the fairies and the little 3546 02:59:10,800 --> 02:59:04,090 people of mushrooms I'm right with your 3547 02:59:12,660 --> 02:59:10,810 brother right with you Gobekli Tepe they 3548 02:59:14,610 --> 02:59:12,670 the blacks executive producers ritika 3549 02:59:16,860 --> 02:59:14,620 Murray on shows produced by MJ palm 3550 02:59:18,810 --> 02:59:16,870 Renae Dennison Kevin announcers are 3551 02:59:21,330 --> 02:59:18,820 Steve Rother Jeeva telemark Tico bar 3552 02:59:24,120 --> 02:59:21,340 music Doug Albert's intro space boys 3553 02:59:27,929 --> 02:59:24,130 space point music calm fade to black is 3554 02:59:31,110 --> 02:59:27,939 produced by kjsurya indication as k GRA 3555 02:59:33,060 --> 02:59:31,120 the planet this broadcast zone copyright 3556 02:59:35,370 --> 02:59:33,070 a 2020 by fade to black in the game 3557 02:59:37,290 --> 02:59:35,380 changer Network Inc it cannot be 3558 02:59:39,150 --> 02:59:37,300 rebroadcast downloaded copied or used 3559 02:59:41,070 --> 02:59:39,160 anywhere in the known universe without 3560 02:59:42,810 --> 02:59:41,080 written permission from beta block of 3561 02:59:45,810 --> 02:59:42,820 the game changer Network I'm yours Jimmy 3562 02:59:47,071 --> 02:59:45,820 church tomorrow night Fator night open 3563 02:59:50,251 --> 02:59:47,081 lines 3564 02:59:52,711 --> 02:59:50,261 all night long very special thanks to 3565 02:59:54,711 --> 02:59:52,721 Nick Redfern until tomorrow night 3566 03:00:02,670 --> 02:59:54,721 everybody be safe